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- ProphetZarquon
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- Registered: 2013-04-28
- Posts: 22
Topic: Doctor Who (2024)
After all the other Doctors bringing all their different tones to the show, why is this Doctor a new show?
2 Reply by SgtSaint 2024-05-19 22:23:00 (edited by santah 2024-05-22 06:01:57)
- Registered: 2024-01-01
- Posts: 51
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
The same could be asked when it was rebooted as "Doctor Who (2005)" when its been running since 1963. Because it is now distributed by Disney in the USA. But Disney didn't pay for the entire back catalogue of seasons, and didn't want their paying viewers to read "season 14" and not be able to catch up. It was supposed to be strictly a distribution chain contract with Disney not having influence over the show. Clearly that's not the case. I don't lay the blame on Jodi Whitiker or Ncuti Garland for how bad these last few years have been. Both have been good actors with good performances in other shows. There was a HUGE change in back-of-house starting with the Jodi W. years. Really bad choice of timing. They changed everything all the way down to firing the lead music producer and going from individual themes to generical muzak. Nothing felt right, the scripts were like a magic mushroom trip, and the directing aweful. Unfortunately that all gets confused with fans not wanting a woman doctor when it was about not wanting a horribly produced show. Then came the 3 episode special that berated and dismissed the David Tenant doctor. Piss off fans more. Now we have Doctor Who: The musical. Russel T. Davis is sticking to his guns about delivering 'the message' hard. Eps 1 & 2 were terrible. ▼Spoiler But... I'll be fair... Eps 3 almost felt like a real episode of Doctor Who. The doctor running through a war-torn planet with a companion behind gave me flash backs to Tom Baker landing on Skaro. The landmine concept and the result when its the doctor as the fuel was original and a good plot device. At that point I was pretty optimistic. You could imagine any other doctor saying the same lines and be totally happy with the episode. Then comes the ending. And just like how this doctor gets a smile and chuckle every time he talks about Galifraye being destroyed, once again he's darn near giddy when talking about a little girl's father being killed in a senseless war and practically giggle when talking about her growing up an orphan. WTF is up with these writers? It feels like they have a mandate from Disney to never have a sad or poignant moment in the show. There can never be a moment of loss or consequence. We had him, the orphan girl and a magically sky: I honestly expected him to start singing "The sun will come out tomorrow" as that was clearly the musical setup for it.
- Registered: 2021-02-03
- Posts: 27
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
SgtSaint wrote:Eps 1 & 2 were terrible.
Agreed. I think Episode #1 would have worked a little better farther into the season. Make it an episode that's fun just to be fun. As the 1st episode it was out of place and bad. Episode 2 had a little more promise. It started out OK, but quickly lost focus on what the episode was about. I was happy with Episode 3. Not overly happy, but just happy. At least I didn't feel like I'd wasted my time when it was done like I did with the first 2

- misfitnz
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- From: Pukekohe, New Zealand
- Registered: 2009-01-18
- Posts: 64
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
I'm done with it (and glad that it's no longer on my watchlist due to the new name). As SgtSaint said Jodi Whitiker or Ncuti Garland are certainly not to blame for the downfall of the show but fall it has. I started watching it in the late 1960s and it's taken this long to turn to complete crap - not a bad run I guess.
- Registered: 2019-07-07
- Posts: 274
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
It always makes me chuckle when people complain about Doctor Who being "all shit now". Have you tried rewatching some older stuff? The new show has always been "wade through all the shit to get to the good stuff", and the original was mostly "the best we could come up with on a budget of 'random generic costumes and someone's backyard'" episodes. But that's not even necessarily a bad thing, it's what makes watching this show (whichever iteration) fun: you have no idea what you are gonna get. "Babies in Space" was pretty much the worst thing I've seen on TV (or wherever) in years. "The Devil's Chord" and "Boom" weren't great, but entirely watchable, maybe even enjoyable if you allow it. Pretty much standard Doctor Who. "73 Yards" though? I think this one was pretty amazing. Scary concept, on an existential level. They didn't even really explain anything in the end, but they didn't need to. It just worked. The episode is currently sitting at a rating of 8.5 on IMDb, and I believe that is accurate. Looks like next week's gonna be one of the goofy ones again. Those can usually go either way; on spins the wheel.
6 Reply by merc 2024-05-26 09:48:56 (edited by merc 2024-05-26 09:51:13)
- Registered: 2018-09-14
- Posts: 1,418
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
eps 4 - 73 yards - any one want to explain it?
- Registered: 2024-01-01
- Posts: 51
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
@merc
eps 4 - 73 yards - any one want to explain it?
I don't know about 'explaining' it, but I can give my interpretation/take on it. Non-spoiler: It was so far the least-bad of the 2024 reboot. I'm sure the production people are just thrilled to hear people refer to episodes in terms of "least bad". But there ya have one man's opinion. ▼Spoiler My take on an explanation of the story: {for what its worth} Once the Doctor was disappeared that left Ruby out of sync with her natural time since they probably wouldn't have made a point to land at the exact same point in her original timeline. It was only dumb luck that the Doctor mentioned the nuclear PM or Ruby would have been {more} clueless. Once she was dyeing of old age she was coming closer and closer to not being out of sync because, well, dead. So her future self and present self got closer and closer until she became her future self looking back at that moment on her past self separating into its/her own timeline. Personal positives with the episode:
It was the most engaging, even more than No.3 landmine. I did at least want to know the answer to the mystery surrounding the old lady I personally found it an interesting observation that the most engaging episode so far had virtually no presence of Ncuti Garland as the Doctor. It wasn't a musical Ncuti didn't have another 'smile and giggle at my planet being destroyed' scene
Personal issues with this episode:
U.N.I.T. is now dealing with magic and supernatural as well as science/tech/aliens. This is a HUGE turn off for me. I like my sci-fi to be science and fantasy to be fantasy. I'm happy with The Expanse, and I'm happy with House of the Dragon... but I don't want dragons on my space ships. This episode was more like Quantum Leap than it should have been. Basically some unknown mystical force intervened to correct the timeline. The nuclear holocost has never been part of Earth's history in any previous Dr.Who or Doctor Who. Yet it was a known event in this Doctor Who because the Doctor knew about it. And Ruby was able to change a MAJOR event for the entire planet. The entire human race is now on a drastically different course. Does the Doctor know she did this? Did his memory just get re-written as if the war never happened? Seems like now this magic girl is casually more powerful/effective in the time line than a Timelord. At the very least he isn't even aware that this is the second loop through this timeline. WTF? They never addressed what old Ruby was saying to everyone to make them flee in absolute horror - and even affect the entire UNIT team despite all their anti-tech, anti-magic, anti-mind-control. More magic powers for Ruby, I guess.
8 Reply by merc 2024-05-27 10:25:52 (edited by merc 2024-05-27 10:28:35)
- Registered: 2018-09-14
- Posts: 1,418
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
I watched last night the Doctor Who : Unleashed episode that discusses the 73 episode and it seems even R T Davies does not know why the scarey lady frightens people off, what she is saying. Says it all really. So the episode is a con
- Registered: 2019-07-07
- Posts: 274
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
merc wrote:I watched last night the Doctor Who : Unleashed episode that discusses the 73 episode and it seems even R T Davies does not know why the scarey lady frightens people off, what she is saying. Says it all really. So the episode is a con
You... might be missing the point? The episode is about a character with abandonment issues (is adopted, never learned why, never really got over that) being put in a situation that literally makes people abandon her without ever giving her any clue why. The genre here is "psychological horror" of sorts. If they gave us an actual explanation why it is happening, then that would turn it into a technical problem. Something that can be solved. But it would also completely eliminate the effect - the horror of not being able to solve it. No answer they could have given would have ever been as scary as not knowing. So, no, there is no answer, and there can't be one. But then again, all of that might just simply not be your thing. Shows that like to play with different genres tend to be like that sometimes. Let's spin the wheel for next time.
- Registered: 2018-09-14
- Posts: 1,418
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
some_one wrote:merc wrote:I watched last night the Doctor Who : Unleashed episode that discusses the 73 episode and it seems even R T Davies does not know why the scarey lady frightens people off, what she is saying. Says it all really. So the episode is a con
You... might be missing the point? The episode is about a character with abandonment issues (is adopted, never learned why, never really got over that) being put in a situation that literally makes people abandon her without ever giving her any clue why. The genre here is "psychological horror" of sorts. If they gave us an actual explanation why it is happening, then that would turn it into a technical problem. Something that can be solved. But it would also completely eliminate the effect - the horror of not being able to solve it. No answer they could have given would have ever been as scary as not knowing. So, no, there is no answer, and there can't be one.
But then again, all of that might just simply not be your thing. Shows that like to play with different genres tend to be like that sometimes. Let's spin the wheel for next time.
nah just a cheap inconsistant con as the old lady is the Milly Gibson character aged - what would she be saying that scares people off? nothing oh "you have bad breathe or B.O"?
- Registered: 2024-01-01
- Posts: 51
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
some_one wrote:You... might be missing the point? {...} The genre here is "psychological horror" of sorts.
Then in my personal opinion you are missing the bigger point: Doctor Who is not an anthology show. It was never Outer Limits or The Twilight Zone, where every episode is a totally new tale. Doctor Who has always been at its core an adventure show. Yes it takes place in science fiction landscape and uses a time machine to broaden the range of story concepts and villains. But still always the adventures of the Doctor and his companion. 2 musicals, 1 sci-fi, and now a psychological horror - is another way to say "The show is all over the map and doesn't know what it wants to be."
- Registered: 2016-01-07
- Posts: 56
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
SgtSaint wrote:@merc
eps 4 - 73 yards - any one want to explain it?
I don't know about 'explaining' it, but I can give my interpretation/take on it. Non-spoiler: It was so far the least-bad of the 2024 reboot. I'm sure the production people are just thrilled to hear people refer to episodes in terms of "least bad". But there ya have one man's opinion. ▼Spoiler My take on an explanation of the story: {for what its worth} Once the Doctor was disappeared that left Ruby out of sync with her natural time since they probably wouldn't have made a point to land at the exact same point in her original timeline. It was only dumb luck that the Doctor mentioned the nuclear PM or Ruby would have been {more} clueless. Once she was dyeing of old age she was coming closer and closer to not being out of sync because, well, dead. So her future self and present self got closer and closer until she became her future self looking back at that moment on her past self separating into its/her own timeline. Personal positives with the episode:
It was the most engaging, even more than No.3 landmine. I did at least want to know the answer to the mystery surrounding the old lady I personally found it an interesting observation that the most engaging episode so far had virtually no presence of Ncuti Garland as the Doctor. It wasn't a musical Ncuti didn't have another 'smile and giggle at my planet being destroyed' scene
Personal issues with this episode:
U.N.I.T. is now dealing with magic and supernatural as well as science/tech/aliens. This is a HUGE turn off for me. I like my sci-fi to be science and fantasy to be fantasy. I'm happy with The Expanse, and I'm happy with House of the Dragon... but I don't want dragons on my space ships. This episode was more like Quantum Leap than it should have been. Basically some unknown mystical force intervened to correct the timeline. The nuclear holocost has never been part of Earth's history in any previous Dr.Who or Doctor Who. Yet it was a known event in this Doctor Who because the Doctor knew about it. And Ruby was able to change a MAJOR event for the entire planet. The entire human race is now on a drastically different course. Does the Doctor know she did this? Did his memory just get re-written as if the war never happened? Seems like now this magic girl is casually more powerful/effective in the time line than a Timelord. At the very least he isn't even aware that this is the second loop through this timeline. WTF? They never addressed what old Ruby was saying to everyone to make them flee in absolute horror - and even affect the entire UNIT team despite all their anti-tech, anti-magic, anti-mind-control. More magic powers for Ruby, I guess.
I don't think older Ruby said anything to them, they didn't run until they looked back at Ruby from older Ruby. It was how younger Ruby looked when they were in the "perception field" of old Ruby that scared them.
- Registered: 2018-09-14
- Posts: 1,418
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
SgtSaint wrote:some_one wrote:You... might be missing the point? {...} The genre here is "psychological horror" of sorts.
Then in my personal opinion you are missing the bigger point: Doctor Who is not an anthology show. It was never Outer Limits or The Twilight Zone, where every episode is a totally new tale. Doctor Who has always been at its core an adventure show. Yes it takes place in science fiction landscape and uses a time machine to broaden the range of story concepts and villains. But still always the adventures of the Doctor and his companion. 2 musicals, 1 sci-fi, and now a psychological horror - is another way to say "The show is all over the map and doesn't know what it wants to be."
You have hit the nail on the head. What made the old Doctor Who Great were thje storys and we could thus forgive the creaking scenary or acting. The show so far is just clever-dick fluff
- Registered: 2008-05-06
- Posts: 3
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
With the 2005 Doctor Who the previous series had been off air for over a decade and while it is still a continuation of the original series I can understand why it's listed separately, but this time it's only been 2 and a half years. To say it's a new show because it's been a couple of years and it's changed network in the US is stupid. It's still produced by Bad Wolf and BBC so is still the same show. We didn't do this when 24 moved from BBC to Sky in the UK so why are we doing it for Doctor Who?
- Registered: 2024-01-01
- Posts: 51
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
rezonate wrote:We didn't do this when 24 moved from BBC to Sky in the UK so why are we doing it for Doctor Who?
It wasn't done for Doctor Who. It was done for the BBC's new masters and overlords: Disney. Disney+ assumes their audience comprised of 12 year olds, has never seen Doctor Who. Its a *new* show to them. And they didn't want to pay for the previous catalogue of seasons when their audience wanted to binge seasons 1-13 with this counting as 14. In the eyes of Disney (you know, the people destroying Marvel and Star Wars)... If its now called "Season 1" then nobody will ever know there was an earlier show. Given how bad this re-re-re-branding is... I'm glad they've made a point of distancing and disassociating it from earlier incarnations.
- Registered: 2024-01-01
- Posts: 51
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
s01e05 "Dot & Bubble" I'm now convinced more than before that they are trying to make this into an anthology show. This was the most Disneyfied Black Mirror episode yet. And so many places they couldn't keep to their own plot devices. ▼Spoiler I got a laugh at how they saw the advancement of the younger generation so addicted to their devices and social media that it literally became a bubble of protection. Couldn't put one foot in front of the other without actual step-by-step reinforcement. Not to mention the further blending of the genders. All girls, and metrosexual boys. Both of these seem to be the course we are seeing develop in real time in real life. That was were it all kinda stopped being entertaining. Where to start with all the issues? They had to abandon their own plot device of not being able to walk without constant instruction. As soon as the girl met a boy, she shifted from "can't walk" to "look at me run". WTF? And then stairs. Now she can do stairs when 5 mins ago couldn't walk on level sidewalk. Its a miracle; halleluiah. So the bugs were on both planets? Not from the forest? Or maybe the dots managed to get them on a transport ship back to the homeworld so all those people could be eaten too? This would imply that the older generation was just as vampid and empty as the kids. Literally NOBODY in power or government or the guy on a forklift was actually looking past their bubble? So no soldiers, no scientists, no nobody. Nobody at the incoming spaceport saw 20 of these on a ship and said "I should run them over with a cargo truck. They can't run, not like I have to be in a hurry about it." At this point I lost all sympathy for the humans. It clearly was a society that was gone and just didn't know it yet. If it wasn't the slugs it would have been something else that drove them to extinction: Like zero population reproduction. Or just the deterioration of the world around them until the cities fell on top of them. As if the previously shown reasons for lack of empty for this civilization wasn't enough - once the girl makes the choice to sacrifice the boy to save her own skin - that's it. There's no empathy left. This audience member was actually cheering for the slugs. The Doctor couldn't get into the city. From the sewers. Couldn't climb a flight of stairs. What? Okay seeing that the people are all white blond bigots maybe there was a negro filter on the doorways. Sure, lets say that's the reason. Pretty blond white Ruby still should have been let right in. And this city that time forgot... nobody has done actual work on the infrastructure for decades is still functioning and has working rust-free boats. Fully working after decades (or more) of ... what... being docked without maintenance? There's a whole group of refugees that have managed to go up and down from street level to water level over and over in order to gather all the nicely boxed up supplies and hump them down by hand... but the door at the top is still locked? The big slugs can barely move. But its better to leave the city for the wilds than just hit them in the head with a shovel? These kids that literally can't put one foot in front of the other have suddenly become crusaders for adventure, rather than re-take their fully functional city with some clubs and bats? Not one person said: "Hey guys. We can sleep down here where its safe. Then go topside and kill a few hundred every day. By next month we can have our city, heat, food, and civilization back. All we really need to do is take down the internet so everyone sees it too."
- Registered: 2018-09-14
- Posts: 1,418
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
eps 5 the Logo (programing language) episode
- Registered: 2024-01-01
- Posts: 51
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
merc wrote:eps 5 the Logo (programing language) episode
That's good one - not sure how many of us left old enough to get it - but a good one.
19 Reply by graybags 2024-06-04 07:46:32 (edited by graybags 2024-06-04 07:48:16)

- graybags
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- Registered: 2008-01-13
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Re: Doctor Who (2024)
SgtSaint wrote:s01e05 "Dot & Bubble" I'm now convinced more than before that they are trying to make this into an anthology show. This was the most Disneyfied Black Mirror episode yet. And so many places they couldn't keep to their own plot devices.
Awful. It was exactly like a really crap episode of Black Mirror. What the hell have they done to Doctor Who? I get that they want to bring Doctor Who to a new, clearly young and woke audience, but they're doing this at the expense of their older fans. If this carries on I'm out, and I've been a fan since the Tom Baker days.
2020. Meh.
- From: Australia
- Registered: 2016-06-10
- Posts: 84
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
graybags wrote:SgtSaint wrote:s01e05 "Dot & Bubble" I'm now convinced more than before that they are trying to make this into an anthology show. This was the most Disneyfied Black Mirror episode yet. And so many places they couldn't keep to their own plot devices.
Awful. It was exactly like a really crap episode of Black Mirror. What the hell have they done to Doctor Who? I get that they want to bring Doctor Who to a new, clearly young and woke audience, but they're doing this at the expense of their older fans. If this carries on I'm out, and I've been a fan since the Tom Baker days.
What He said!!
- Registered: 2018-09-14
- Posts: 1,418
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
conmits wrote:graybags wrote:SgtSaint wrote:s01e05 "Dot & Bubble" I'm now convinced more than before that they are trying to make this into an anthology show. This was the most Disneyfied Black Mirror episode yet. And so many places they couldn't keep to their own plot devices.
Awful. It was exactly like a really crap episode of Black Mirror. What the hell have they done to Doctor Who? I get that they want to bring Doctor Who to a new, clearly young and woke audience, but they're doing this at the expense of their older fans. If this carries on I'm out, and I've been a fan since the Tom Baker days.
What He said!!
it is not really Doctor Who. More like Doctor where are you? eps 5 and 4 he dont really figure in it?
22 Reply by TheFizza 2024-06-07 03:15:59 (edited by TheFizza 2024-06-07 03:16:58)

- TheFizza
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Re: Doctor Who (2024)
So far...
1. 73 Yards 2. Boom 3. Dot and Bubble 4. The Devil's Chord 5. Space Babies
23 Reply by TheFizza 2024-06-07 04:12:01 (edited by TheFizza 2024-06-07 04:22:00)

- TheFizza
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Re: Doctor Who (2024)
Maybe someone else already pointed to this here but felt a bit odd that recent eps have had a magical component, when the Doctor has spent 60+ yrs telling their companions “There’s no such thing as magic!” I guess according to an interview RTD gave, fantasy is going to be a component of the DW Universe. From what I gather many folks are of the opinion, one of the reasons, he did this was Rusty wanted to make a(nother) change to the Doctor which signified his stewardship. Like making he did the first time around with the Last of the Time Lords. And Chibnall did with the Doctor being the Original Time Lord?! or whatever that is? I'm not sure I like magic being a thing now... likely won't leave off watching but it doesn't sit all that well whatever inverse rationale. And honestly mostly because I'm not sure many other showrunners have the delicate enough touch that RTD has. Because, I am of the opinion that, despite his flaws, he's a dynamic storyteller. Furthermore, I feel he has given this series the shot in the arm it was in sore need of. IDK about anyone else but I was soooooo bored in the Whittaker Era, not on her performance, I felt she was competent in the role. The stories tho... the stories But what happens when the next showrunner has no idea how to balance the story for the different types of audiences the Doctor draws to them?! Really this is a symptom of this larger shift the Doctor seems to have been going thorough since it's revival... a continuous regeneration, if I may be so drool. Getting further and further away from that old weirdo in the time booth we thought we knew so well. But as long as the formula hasn't really changed does it matter? I mean unlike a lot of other franchise we have literally hundreds of hours of other incarnations of the Doctor [not counting audio dramas]. This being something new actually makes plenty of sense for what the Doctor has become more so that what he was... and that seems apt. I guess I'm just worried about the future which is funny when I should be leaving that to the Doctor. I hope it will stay nicely balanced but I guess if I can make it through Chibnall's shenanigans I can make it through most things, I'm here for the time-and-space nonesense, keep it good and I'll keep praising it!
- Registered: 2024-01-01
- Posts: 51
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
TheFizza wrote:Maybe someone else already pointed to this here but felt a bit odd that recent eps have had a magical component, when the Doctor has spent 60+ yrs telling their companions “There’s no such thing as magic!” I'm not sure I like magic being a thing now...
I am sure. I don't like it. Its lazy writing to be able to literally wave a wand and make something out of nothing. Its for script writers that don't have the skill or knowledge of the show canon to actually work within the parameters of the show: Which aren't tight its literally all of time and space. You could see it coming with the gravity defying flying wooden ship where ropes and knots were the technology, from the 3eps special. But even before that with the multi-color LSD trip aliens/episodes of the Jodi Whitiker years. Its was a plan path to bring in magic. There's no 'stewardship' going on here. Its just one guy saying "I'm going to piss all over this to mark my territory". This is *mine* to use as a platform for my message and my agenda. the delicate enough touch that RTD has.
Probably the funniest thing I've read yet. IDK about anyone else but I was soooooo bored in the Whittaker Era, not on her performance, I felt she was competent in the role. The stories tho... the stories 
All of that was the begging of this current path they are on. He's RTD isn't the cure to it: He is patient zero.
- Registered: 2024-01-01
- Posts: 51
Re: Doctor Who (2024)
s01e06 - Rogue Shocking surprise - It was a Doctor Who episode. A real, proper episode. ▼Spoiler Rogue very much was a stand-in for Capt. Jack Harkness. Shape shifting species are not new to Doctor Who, so that works. They felt rather like the Slitheen in this context; to me anyway. Aliens doing cosplay in "Bridgerton" while the Doctor and Companion are doing the very same thing has some ironic humor to it. Find the evil alien, handle the evil alien, run, solve the impending doom, next. Its a simple formula that works. I suppose its a lot of recycled parts re-assembled in a slightly new way to make a new episode. But it felt so much better than the last 5 episodes.
Such a shame it took until episode 6 out of a total of 8 this season to get one decent.
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