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- WilliamDrakeMcGregor
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Topic: What If...?
https://next-episode.net/marvels-what-if
Based on the Marvel comic line of the same name, the animated series will examine zany alternate timelines based on "what if?" questions.
Season 1 was good, Season 2 was ok... Season 3 is not off to a good start, Episode 1 imho quite a let down. ▼Spoiler Seriously, Banner turns Hulk and makes "a dent" into the ship (those fists used to break streets open...) and Sam sees it. That is the reason why he decides to continue the experiment to get rid of the Hulk?!?!....what the heck... Is this the first time in this timeline that he hulked out?, he never destroyed any cities and killed hundreds of people?...no the slight shock on Sam Wilsons face does it for him....wow, just wow. And so Earths mightiest heroes fought...and fell... and their sacrifice inspired the surviving heroes to finish the fight...
Wow...the level of writing and storytelling here...just weak sauce. I actually watched that scene twice to make sure I really understand how horrible that dialogue was. There is also no indication that the Apex or the other Gamma-beasts got stronger, so no reason to believe the Mecha-Avengers wouldn't be able to handle them...after all it's the same guys who defeated the initial Apex. At the end it looked more like a fight between two Gozillas and not Hulks.
Shows that deserved more runtime: Abbys | Dead Like Me | Devs | Firefly | Gangsta. | Jack of all Trades | Kevin (probably) saves the World | Lodge 49 | Mrs. Davis | NYC 22 | Powerless | Roadkill | Special Unit 2 | Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi | Stumptown | Surface | The Brave | The Company You Keep | The Crazy Ones | The Finder | The Middleman | Truth Seekers | Two Weeks to Live | Whiskey Cavalier
- Registered: 2016-06-10
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Re: What If...?
Thank you for letting us know. Downloaded 3 episodes and could not make it past 1. Not for me. But I still appreciate your efforts.
--== Warning. This message will self destruct in 24h. ==--
- Registered: 2019-07-07
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Re: What If...?
Whoever writes these seems to have a comprehension of how literally anything works that can easily rival any 9 year old. It's like fanfiction written by someone who only read the plot summaries on Wikipedia. It does have its moments every once in a while, but it really is impressively bad the rest of the time...
4 Reply by TheFizza 2024-12-26 20:22:11 (edited by TheFizza 2024-12-26 21:13:43)
- TheFizza
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Re: What If...?
I'm of the opinion this third season has been a bit weak story-wise but very strong thematically... for what that's worth.
- WilliamDrakeMcGregor
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Re: What If...?
Episode 2 was better than Episode 1.
▼Spoiler Agatha was once again quite evil in this one, really enjoyed it. What confused me that she could consume the powers of the Eternals and Celestials...I thought she could only steal power from other witches?
Episode 3 on the other hand was imho an absolute insult to the original storyline.
▼Spoiler In the MCU the Red Guardian is the comic relief...same here. This doesn't fit at all to that pivotal moment when Howard Stark died. This moment means so much in the MCU and they made a joke out of it... I get that this episode is about how the Red Guardian influenced the Winter Solider...fine enough, but they should've (and could've) picked another mission for this to take place... Did the head of the S.H.I.E.L.D. science divison forget that they are a covert organisation? He literally told a bunch of street cops
We are dealing with genetically, biologically, phisically and mechanically enhanced supersoldiers
?? But considering the rest of the episode, I guess there won't be much covert anything in this timeline
Shows that deserved more runtime: Abbys | Dead Like Me | Devs | Firefly | Gangsta. | Jack of all Trades | Kevin (probably) saves the World | Lodge 49 | Mrs. Davis | NYC 22 | Powerless | Roadkill | Special Unit 2 | Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi | Stumptown | Surface | The Brave | The Company You Keep | The Crazy Ones | The Finder | The Middleman | Truth Seekers | Two Weeks to Live | Whiskey Cavalier
- WilliamDrakeMcGregor
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Re: What If...?
I think Season 3 Episode 4 is probably the funniest episode from all three seasons. ▼Spoiler The first time Howard made a duck-noise it cracked me up completely
Shows that deserved more runtime: Abbys | Dead Like Me | Devs | Firefly | Gangsta. | Jack of all Trades | Kevin (probably) saves the World | Lodge 49 | Mrs. Davis | NYC 22 | Powerless | Roadkill | Special Unit 2 | Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi | Stumptown | Surface | The Brave | The Company You Keep | The Crazy Ones | The Finder | The Middleman | Truth Seekers | Two Weeks to Live | Whiskey Cavalier
- WilliamDrakeMcGregor
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Re: What If...?
There seems to be a pattern to the episodes of Season 3. One bad (EP01), one good (EP02), one bad (EP03), etc. Episode 5 accurately falls on the bad side of the pattern... which is particulary disappointing because in terms of "What if...?" the situation of "The Emergence Destroyed the Earth" had the biggest potential of all the alternative storylines so far. ▼Spoiler So, from what I recall about The Eternals movies (which isn't much), nobobdy else knew about the Emergence, right? So there was no time at all to prepare for the worst case scenario, correct? So how the heck did people survive the destruction of the Earth? How is there still an atmosphere for people to breath? And to focus on who reigns over this pile of rubble is the most boring, insignifcant story they could've picked. What happened to the Celestial? How did the spacefaring earthlings like Captain Marvel and Peter Quill react to the earth being destroyed, where is Thor?...did no one come to look for survivors? But no, we get to see C-class hero fight C-class villain...meh. What's worse...the moment the Watcher says that this will not go her way, you know exactly she won't loose....great way to spoil the ending...
Shows that deserved more runtime: Abbys | Dead Like Me | Devs | Firefly | Gangsta. | Jack of all Trades | Kevin (probably) saves the World | Lodge 49 | Mrs. Davis | NYC 22 | Powerless | Roadkill | Special Unit 2 | Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi | Stumptown | Surface | The Brave | The Company You Keep | The Crazy Ones | The Finder | The Middleman | Truth Seekers | Two Weeks to Live | Whiskey Cavalier
- WilliamDrakeMcGregor
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Re: What If...?
Well, guess the pattern didn't hold up, after Episode 5 it went only downhill imho. Episode 6
▼Spoiler didn't have any significance to it... The Hood is such a low level threat that, compared to the other episodes, this felt completely misplaced to me. So, the premise is that the characters we know live in the 19th century wild west...but Tony Stark still manages to built a futuristic hover train...wait, what? The Hood being his sister was way too obvious. They call him The Ten Rings, but he doesn't have the Ten Rings?...of course, because then where would've been the struggle in the fight...again, low level threat...
Episode 7
▼Spoiler Those shards sure fell conveniently... So with access to all the universes in existence, every superhero you can think of, they choose "Infinity-Ultron"? - Sure, why not go with the riskiest choice...it's not like there isn't a Tony Stark, Reed Richards or even Rocket Raccoon out there. Just get some smart people together.
Episode 8
▼Spoiler It's interesting that no one even thought about asking what happened and why Uatu is in chains. They just assumed that he did nothing wrong and that the three Eminences(?) are bad guys... I mean they could've at least asked what is going to happen to him? From the beginning of the Episode you could get the impression that being a Watcher is more like a job than a natural occurence. So, maybe he just gets fired? I honestly don't know what they are fighting about... Imagine that: You are the CEO of a company and one of your employees decided to start gambling with company money. You find out about it and order the employee to your office. After you start telling him what you know and he makes all kinds of excuses some jerk busts into your office, punches you in the face and runs away with the employee... Now who is the bad guy in this scenario? That being said, the writers really wanted to make sure that the three Eminences are presented as bad guys, calling the ones he interferred for "insignifcant beings"....but why? There mission is a neutral one and all they ask of Uatu is to uphold his oath...they did nothing wrong. So basically Uatu and the others are the bad guys. And then we come to the bit where "everyone can be a Watcher" (or at least conveniently get their powers)....omfg. I already hated that stuff with Ahsoka where "everyone can be a Jedi"... And the end...what was the point exactly?
Shows that deserved more runtime: Abbys | Dead Like Me | Devs | Firefly | Gangsta. | Jack of all Trades | Kevin (probably) saves the World | Lodge 49 | Mrs. Davis | NYC 22 | Powerless | Roadkill | Special Unit 2 | Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi | Stumptown | Surface | The Brave | The Company You Keep | The Crazy Ones | The Finder | The Middleman | Truth Seekers | Two Weeks to Live | Whiskey Cavalier
- TheFizza
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- WilliamDrakeMcGregor
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Re: What If...?
TheFizza wrote:Great finale!
Even though the whole story of the ending didn't make any sense? Correct me, if it did and I missed it. ▼Spoiler There was absolutely no indication whatsoever that The Eminences were bad or did something wrong. It was just decided for them to make the others look like the good guys... They are a neutral force tasked to observe the universe and record it - the "heroes" know that... and yet, Carter, Ultron and everyone else didn't even give them the benefit of the doubt and ask a very simple question: Why did you confine Uatu? If Uatu decides that this task no longer suits him because he wants to interfere, fine...maybe go talk to your boss and mentor about it?...don't just destroy the whole system? - What about the other Watchers? Did it look good, yes...but without a good story there is nothing great about it.
Shows that deserved more runtime: Abbys | Dead Like Me | Devs | Firefly | Gangsta. | Jack of all Trades | Kevin (probably) saves the World | Lodge 49 | Mrs. Davis | NYC 22 | Powerless | Roadkill | Special Unit 2 | Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi | Stumptown | Surface | The Brave | The Company You Keep | The Crazy Ones | The Finder | The Middleman | Truth Seekers | Two Weeks to Live | Whiskey Cavalier
11 Reply by TheFizza 2025-01-04 13:23:10 (edited by TheFizza 2025-01-06 11:47:14)
- TheFizza
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Re: What If...?
WilliamDrakeMcGregor wrote:TheFizza wrote:Great finale!
Even though the whole story of the ending didn't make any sense? Correct me, if it did and I missed it. ▼Spoiler There was absolutely no indication whatsoever that The Eminences were bad or did something wrong. It was just decided for them to make the others look like the good guys... They are a neutral force tasked to observe the universe and record it - the "heroes" know that... and yet, Carter, Ultron and everyone else didn't even give them the benefit of the doubt and ask a very simple question: Why did you confine Uatu? If Uatu decides that this task no longer suits him because he wants to interfere, fine...maybe go talk to your boss and mentor about it?...don't just destroy the whole system? - What about the other Watchers? Did it look good, yes...but without a good story there is nothing great about it.
Yup... annnnd this whole season was a Save The Cat tutorial, no doubt. But this is the MCU, a cinematic universe where the only movie that actually makes sense is the Hulk, which is arguably the least liked of the entire franchise... So-yeah, when you say 'this is nonsense', I say 'it must be the MCU'... As a result, for what it was, it was a pretty-great time. If I want something that makes sense, I won't watch a franchise movie or series. Unfortunately though this is how it is, I'm not saying this should be but one can only work-around what we are given. That's my perspective, I'm not implying any-of-y'all have to concur.
- WilliamDrakeMcGregor
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Re: What If...?
TheFizza wrote:But this is the MCU, a cinematic universe where the only movie that actually makes sense is the Hulk, which is arguably the least liked of the entire franchise... So-yeah, when you say 'this is nonsense', I say 'it must be the MCU'... As a result, for what it was, it was a pretty-great time. If I want something that makes sense, I won't watch a franchise movie or series. Unfortunately though this is how it is, I'm not saying this should be how it is but one can only work-around what we are given. That's my perspective, I'm not implying any-of-y'all have to concur.
We must've watched different movies then, 'cause at least up to and including Endgame the story of the MCU movies made sense to me, at least I knew who was the bad guy and why...but as you said, that's a matter of perspective
Shows that deserved more runtime: Abbys | Dead Like Me | Devs | Firefly | Gangsta. | Jack of all Trades | Kevin (probably) saves the World | Lodge 49 | Mrs. Davis | NYC 22 | Powerless | Roadkill | Special Unit 2 | Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi | Stumptown | Surface | The Brave | The Company You Keep | The Crazy Ones | The Finder | The Middleman | Truth Seekers | Two Weeks to Live | Whiskey Cavalier
13 Reply by TheFizza 2025-01-06 12:06:42 (edited by TheFizza 2025-01-07 07:18:52)
- TheFizza
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Re: What If...?
WilliamDrakeMcGregor wrote:We must've watched different movies then, 'cause at least up to and including Endgame the story of the MCU movies made sense to me, at least I knew who was the bad guy and why...but as you said, that's a matter of perspective
Yup, we have different opinions... for me Endgame was the biggest bunch of nonsense I've ever seen, and I've seen The Quest. Almost nothing in really most of the Marvel flicks makes sense, least of all that mess of the time travel movie. I mean, just watch about any MCU 'pitch meeting' video on YouTube, to get details on some of their ridiculous plot holes. That being said, it's clear from the MCU's success I'm the one in the minority here, but it bothers me when Zemo's plans rely on like 15 coincidences... or when Steve Rogers goes back in time to just watched every terrible event in history play out even though he can save folks, which goes against his characterization, it's all just more facepalming Marvel nonsense to me. That doesn't stop me from watching, I just adjust my expectations to fit the nonsense they're pumping out over at Disney/Marvel. So-yeah, different opinions or perspective, mine doesn't invalidate yours and vice-versa.
- Registered: 2012-05-26
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Re: What If...?
The whole MCU is slop, the equivalent of fastfood at best, designed for the lowest common denominator, taken through endless committees to make sure nobody is offended. Don't get me wrong, I stop by the local McD here and there just as I sometimes fall asleep to a guardians of the galaxy movie but we really should stop judging the quality of it and just seek better stuff.
15 Reply by WilliamDrakeMcGregor 2025-01-06 16:05:36 (edited by WilliamDrakeMcGregor 2025-01-06 16:09:34)
- WilliamDrakeMcGregor
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Re: What If...?
TheFizza wrote:WilliamDrakeMcGregor wrote:We must've watched different movies then, 'cause at least up to and including Endgame the story of the MCU movies made sense to me, at least I knew who was the bad guy and why...but as you said, that's a matter of perspective
Yup, we have different opinions... for me Endgame was the biggest bunch of nonsense I've ever seen, and I've seen The Quest. Almost nothing in really most of the Marvel flicks makes sense, least of all that mess of the time travel movie. I mean, just watch about any MCU 'pitch meeting' video on YouTube, to get details on some of their ridiculous plot holes. That being said, it's clear from the MCU's success I'm the one in the minority here, but it bothers me when Zemo's plans rely on like 15 coincidences... or when Steve Rogers goes back in time to just watched every terrible event in history play out even though he can save folks, which goes against his characterization, it's all just more facepalming Marvel nonsense to me. That doesn't stop me from watching, I just adjust my expectations to fit the nonsense they're pumping out over at Disney/Marvel. So-yeah, different opinions or perspective, my doesn't invalidate yours and vice-versa.
Would you mind giving me an example for a movie / tv-series that, in your opinion, made perfect sense? Watched every Pitch Meeting btw
Shows that deserved more runtime: Abbys | Dead Like Me | Devs | Firefly | Gangsta. | Jack of all Trades | Kevin (probably) saves the World | Lodge 49 | Mrs. Davis | NYC 22 | Powerless | Roadkill | Special Unit 2 | Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi | Stumptown | Surface | The Brave | The Company You Keep | The Crazy Ones | The Finder | The Middleman | Truth Seekers | Two Weeks to Live | Whiskey Cavalier
16 Reply by TheFizza 2025-01-07 07:45:48 (edited by TheFizza 2025-01-07 09:24:15)
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Re: What If...?
WilliamDrakeMcGregor wrote: Would you mind giving me an example for a movie / tv-series that, in your opinion, made perfect sense? Watched every Pitch Meeting btw
Nice, Pitch Meetings are a good time! As for series which makes sense... well, first I should add that no series I can think of makes perfect sense because they do have to make compromises for the dramatic fiction of it all. However, I'd say the following do a pretty decent job of making sense; TNG, Travelers, Fringe, Expanse, The Wire, The Good Guys [2010]... heck, even Young Justice & Future Man. If you're asking just about MARVEL, I'm not sure any are really sensical. But, taken with a grain of salt, my Top 10 are: Agents of SHIELD LOKI Agent Carter Agatha All Along Cloak & Dagger WandaVision Moon Knight Hawkeye Luke Cage Falcon & The Winter Soldier
17 Reply by WilliamDrakeMcGregor 2025-01-07 17:47:56 (edited by WilliamDrakeMcGregor 2025-01-07 17:48:09)
- WilliamDrakeMcGregor
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Re: What If...?
TheFizza wrote:WilliamDrakeMcGregor wrote: Would you mind giving me an example for a movie / tv-series that, in your opinion, made perfect sense? Watched every Pitch Meeting btw
Nice, Pitch Meetings are a good time! As for series which makes sense... well, first I should add that no series I can think of makes perfect sense because they do have to make compromises for the dramatic fiction of it all. However, I'd say the following do a pretty decent job of making sense; TNG, Travelers, Fringe, Expanse, The Wire, The Good Guys [2010]... heck, even Young Justice & Future Man. If you're asking just about MARVEL, I'm not sure any are really sensical. But, taken with a grain of salt, my Top 10 are: Agents of SHIELD LOKI Agent Carter Agatha All Along Cloak & Dagger WandaVision Moon Knight Hawkeye Luke Cage Falcon & The Winter Soldier
Interesting. Travelers would be my personal number 1 here, one of the best shows I've ever watched. (as for Marvel shows Luke Cage, WandaVision, Moon Knight and Falcon & The Winter Soldier would be dead last imho ) Thanks for that. Coming back to my original point, you said it perfectly with "compromising for the dramatic fiction of it all". In consideration of that, with all things Marvel (up to Endgame) I knew - who was the good guy - who was the bad guy - what each and every character's goal were - how they plan to reach their goal - how the fictional world worked For a Superhero movie, that is enough for me to have it "make sense". That was totally missing with the final of season 2. There was no compromise, just a decision by the writers for who the bad guy had to be, without any reason behind it.
Shows that deserved more runtime: Abbys | Dead Like Me | Devs | Firefly | Gangsta. | Jack of all Trades | Kevin (probably) saves the World | Lodge 49 | Mrs. Davis | NYC 22 | Powerless | Roadkill | Special Unit 2 | Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi | Stumptown | Surface | The Brave | The Company You Keep | The Crazy Ones | The Finder | The Middleman | Truth Seekers | Two Weeks to Live | Whiskey Cavalier
- piraterepublics
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Re: What If...?
was it good? sure if you are under 14 and that is what disney is selling it to. just like the star wars franchise. its about who has the most money. CHILDREN who don't care about anything. children who can cry until their parents pay. children who will still be watching 30 years from now no matter how bad it gets. how can i complain i saw every star wars movies and tv series, but i stopped paying after i turned 25 and realized it was really junk. but there is good and there is MCdonalds good enough as you are too lazy to wait or pay for better. season 3 really had nothing to offer, nothing really new. and heros like wonder woman 1984 who killed a god "just because she was wrong on everything but still needed to kill someone as a final boss" 75% of what marvel makes under "dismays" direction has been pretty much crap. but i will still watch some of it looking for a gem. stan lees legacy ended with end game.
19 Reply by TheFizza 2025-01-08 05:46:07 (edited by TheFizza 2025-01-09 06:26:33)
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Re: What If...?
piraterepublics wrote:stan lees legacy ended with end game.
Stan Lee was kind of a trash human being who basically stole sole credit and financial remunerations from creatives far more competent and innovative than himself... to that point, I think the whole MCU is an appropriate legacy.
20 Reply by TheFizza 2025-01-09 06:38:05 (edited by TheFizza 2025-01-09 10:01:17)
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Re: What If...?
WilliamDrakeMcGregor wrote:Coming back to my original point, you said it perfectly with "compromising for the dramatic fiction of it all". In consideration of that, with all things Marvel (up to Endgame) I knew - who was the good guy - who was the bad guy - what each and every character's goal were - how they plan to reach their goal - how the fictional world worked For a Superhero movie, that is enough for me to have it "make sense". That was totally missing with the final of season 2. There was no compromise, just a decision by the writers for who the bad guy had to be, without any reason behind it.
That's a fine perspective to have, that's just not the way I see it. For me things need to add up, I need there to be less coincidence and more logic. I know I might be asking for a lot but, for me, that's the bare minimum I would expect of any film. I don't make exceptions for genre... I also expect there to be something of a deeper aspect to it [I want it to have something to say] and most of all I need there to be consistent characterization or clear growth which would explain any changes in characters or their actions. Not to say I don't enjoy a fun romp but if I were to choose between The Eternals and The Suicide Squad?! Well, one is cusping upon masterpiece status while the other has lots of ultraviolence and funny jokes in it. In fact, as I was typing the above I was thinking about my rankings for Guardians of the Galaxy... For me it goes: 3, 1, 2... and that's because there were just too many redic coincidences in the 2nd volume, so much so that I was pretty checked out of it by the end. I could barely appreciate the strong themes for what I found to be bad storytelling. Now, do I still enjoy movies with lots of stupid jokes in which little sense is required... For the most part, I had a good time watching Endgame... However, by the time I was walking out of the theatre I was already like, 'I don't think that added up.' So, while I might've had some fun in the moment, all that enjoyment burst when I began to probe its edges. As a result, like a soap bubble with one twitch it disappears into thin air. Really, it's not as though I hate most of those flicks filled with air and redic superhero nonsense, I just don't consider them to be great [in some cases not even good] works nor think much of them after the endorphins wear off. I differentiate the two, in places like my Letterboxd, with likes/hearts vs stars. I prefer a comic book film, where things mostly add up, like Doctor Strange. Whereas Batman Ninja, for instance, was so ridiculously nonsensical my sides hurt from laughing. Sure it was objectively one of the worst Bat-flicks of all time, but I'd also give it 15 hearts if I could. But that movie leaned into the redic unlike the MCU flicks which try for a more realistic flavor. On that side of it though, I get stuck in the weeds when things don't add up. Often that will happen with some of the more popular ones, like with any of the MCU's Spider-Movies or Civil War and of course with Endgame, which is disheartening. That being as it is, What if...? is the most nonsensical of the nonsense over at MARVEL and for that I kind of give it a pass... like, are you expecting logic from a Spider-Ham or Howard the Duck story?! I sure hope not Anyways, I'm just saying that I don't hold this streaming series to anywhere near what I would a competently made movie. I mean, they are barely anything but fanfic plus I've read the comics as a kid, they range from awesome [like Cap vs Conan] to straight trash [like White Power Cap]... So-yeah, this season wasn't great but I enjoyed it for what it was. Annnnnd that two-part ending was pretty fun stuff.
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