26

Re: The Acolyte

paisley1 wrote:

The Acolyte is to Star Wars what Discovery is to Star Trek.

Good analogy but they couldn't possibly make 5 seasons of this trash though...could they?

27 (edited by paisley1 2024-06-23 22:38:37)

Re: The Acolyte

proteinnerd wrote:
paisley1 wrote:

The Acolyte is to Star Wars what Discovery is to Star Trek.

Good analogy but they couldn't possibly make 5 seasons of this trash though...could they?

Yup, at least according to Screenrant, but maybe Bob Iger will come to his senses before everyone cancels their Disney+ subscription, dunno.  The online blow back is overwhelming, now 13% on Rotten Tomatoes and 3.3/10 and dropping on IMDB, just read the reviews, they're fantastic:

Agenda filled mess
Bad, predictable Plot, poor Character writing and weird pacing.

"The Acolyte," the latest addition to the Star Wars universe by Leslie Headland, is a colossal disappointment. The plot is painfully predictable, following a tired and uninspired storyline that does little to engage viewers. It's clear that the show is more focused on ticking boxes for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion than on crafting a compelling narrative. This forced agenda overshadows any potential the show might have had, resulting in a contrived and unconvincing storyline.

The pacing in the first two episodes is dreadful, dragging along without any real momentum. The fight choreography is stiff and overly choreographed, making action scenes feel forced and unexciting. The characters are one-dimensional, with every male character portrayed as dumb and incompetent, a blatant attempt to undermine them rather than create strong, multifaceted female characters.

The show's attempt to be progressive comes off as pandering, and the lack of depth in its characters and story is glaringly obvious. "The Acolyte" feels more like a box-ticking exercise than a genuine addition to the Star Wars lore. If you're looking for a captivating and thrilling Star Wars experience, this isn't it. Save yourself the time and skip this poorly executed mess.

This one is probably my favorite:

Way to go, Leslye!
6ixshot6 June 2024
Leslye Headland is absolutely spot on. Our whole perception of Star Wars has been incredibly off-mark. To think we cherished it as a saga that masterfully wove together elements of myth, complex morality, and the timeless struggle of light against darkness, within an expansive, meticulously crafted universe. How utterly quaint of us! It seems we've been utterly blind to its true essence: an intergalactic teenage fanfiction, brimming with self-insert characters who gallivant across the stars, unburdened by depth or growth.

Why bother with the intricate dance of politics, the philosophical ponderings on the nature of power and responsibility, or the nuanced portrayal of humanity (and alien-ity) in all its complexity? Why invest in crafting a story that explores the delicate balances of the Force, when it's much simpler to pen down a universe that caters to the whims of adolescent fantasy? Forget the painstakingly constructed lore, the epic narratives that span generations, and the careful character development that has inspired millions across the globe. No, no, let's just reduce it all to a cosmic-scale teenage diary entry. After all, what value do themes of sacrifice, redemption, and the enduring hope in the face of overwhelming darkness have, when you can have your very own cosmic soap opera? Bravo, Leslye. Bravo.

28

Re: The Acolyte

If ya'll dislike it so much by all means stop watching, there I solved a major issue in life for several people on this site

29 (edited by inkblot 2024-06-24 02:33:08)

Re: The Acolyte

BusterTheDoggie wrote:

If ya'll dislike it so much by all means stop watching, there I solved a major issue in life for several people on this site

You solved nothing. Sometimes it helps to know why someone does not like a show.

paisley1 for example cleared quite a few things up for me. I knew there was something off about this show. Just could not put my finger on it.

Good and bad reviews are useful.

Your comment was very narrow minded point of view.

This is a forum about TV and Movies. And opinions swinging either way. If it was up to you, we would be as useless as IMDB, where a lot of movies have bogus ratings. And if you did not like something you are told to shut up and stop watching.

I have stopped watching that show, but I come here to find out who else has and why. I am curious that way.

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30 (edited by paisley1 2024-06-23 23:52:01)

Re: The Acolyte

@BusterTheDoggie - Of course.  I stopped watching after 1x2, then the online blow back exploded and is still ongoing on youtube, which is way more entertaining than the show.  Shared misery has united the core audience. lolz.  And as mrverene mentioned rifftrax, The Acolyte has brought out the inner Tom Servo MST3K.

@inkblot - No need to start a flame war, I appreciate and will even defend narrow minded points of view from time to time, I've made them, and we need them, to have a richer forum. tongue

31 (edited by inkblot 2024-06-24 02:33:54)

Re: The Acolyte

paisley1 wrote:

@BusterTheDoggie - Of course.  I stopped watching after 1x2, then the online blow back exploded and is still ongoing on youtube, which is way more entertaining than the show.  Shared misery has united the core audience. lolz.  And as mrverene mentioned rifftrax, The Acolyte has brought out the inner Tom Servo MST3K.

@inkblot - No need to start a flame war, I appreciate and will even defend narrow minded points of view from time to time, I've made them, and we need them, to have a richer forum. tongue

No sparks no flame. Just making some valid points. This is a forum where things are discussed. Not where people are beaten down and told to shut up. Would not be much of a forum if we only see one side of the discussion.

I stopped at ep3.

paisly1 I edited my original post. You did have a point. I was a bit rough. Thanx for dragging me back from the abyss.

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32

Re: The Acolyte

Spoiler

Well at least the Jedi are dying like flies in this show.

33

Re: The Acolyte

This show has really picked up in the last two episodes.  If you gave up a while ago that's fair enough, but I'm glad I never.

So much hate for this show out there, it's like a personal afront to some people.

2020.  Meh.

34 (edited by WilliamDrakeMcGregor 2024-06-29 12:11:36)

Re: The Acolyte

Wasn't able to watch EP05 till now.

Overall it was OK. Since most of the Episode are fights, it was entertaining at least smile

Here my in-depth analysis:

Spoiler

To use 5 Jedi as a plot-device for showing how good Mr. Sith is at fighting...unbelievable...
I said it before, it's seems to me that all supporting Jedi are force-disabled in this show.
Remember, the next time a Sith was officially encountered was by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and they held their own against Maul.
Same thing happened here. The moment it was only Master + Padawan they managed to force of his helmet.
The lesson learned? "Never bring more than two Jedi to a Sith-fight" xD

I liked how Osha listen to Yord when they fled to the ship. Didn't expect her to listen to him....but then the bug-thing happened.
I always thought all Jedi had an affinity to "communicate" with animals through the force...apparently a houndred years ago things were different.

Did he steal that helmet from Magneto?! - "show me your face" - "and let you read my thoughts" - wtf?
The "no, no, no" made me laugh - that's almost dc comic type villain stuff.

Did they really think it was a big reveal when Mr. Sith lost his helmet and it was Qimir. It was clear since the moment Mae left him dangling from the tree... - i wonder where he hid all that gear?
- I know this is stupid, but I know the actor from "The Good Place"...Since he was a total goofball there, in my head, for me personally, he just doesn't fit as the big bad wolf.
- He also felt more deranged than cold and calculated...just didn't give off the right vibe for me.
- What are his arms made of? First he deflects lightsabers with them and then, in hand-to-hand combat they are just regular old arms?

Why does the Jedi Master give off more emotion when someone dies than Osha?

I give up on Mae...that character just doesn't make any sense, just poor character development.
Osha is a bit better written in that regard.

So the reason for them having the same hair cut (one a bit longer) was so that Mae could cut her hair and pretend to be Osha...Parent Trap? From how many more movies are they gonna copy/paste?

And btw. everyone who said the hair thing was "a minor detail" - the showrunners themselves just made it a big detail smile
At that point I think they forgot that Sol is a Jedi...well considering the portrayal of the Jedi in this show overall, maybe they actually didn't.

Since he officially called himself a Sith now...I can see how much potential was wasted here. The could've gone with the "always two there are" and reveal that for the last 900 years the Sith survived in she shadows. But I don't thinks this is where they are going with this.

Next Episode: The dark side of the Jedi Order.... as expected, unfortunately.

35

Re: The Acolyte

I spare the analysis of Episode 6 because, well I don't think anything actually happened here.
People walked around and had some talks who didn't lead to anything.

I think if you skip this episode you won't have missed a single thing of importance.

36

Re: The Acolyte

I decided to push through to the end.

Episode 7, on of the other sides of the story. It was...laughable.

Spoiler

It starts with the Jedi's mission on the planet Brendok. Apparently that planet was a wasteland and it suddenly became inhabitable with flora and fauna. The cause is a "vergence" of the force.

So after seven weeks on investigating they are seen taking sample of plants and apparently looking for treasures with a metal detector.
Really? I wonder...did they start off with a planetary scan or something like that? Did they do an aerial survey of the planet? How did they miss the giant fortress in the mountain we have seen in EP03.
Or, instead of collecting samples, maybe they should meditate...

Than something happens that bothers me in every movie, tv show, etc. I have ever seen. You ring a doorbell and wait what, 5 seconds?? No one answers and you decide to climb through a window.
Anyone who has ever answered a doorbell knows it takes more than five seconds to come to the door.... that little detail annoys me every time.

"They do not treat the girls as children" - what in the actual f is he talking about. The same thing we saw him observing (for 5 minutes) happens in the Jedi temple. Even much much more of that. That argument doesn't make any sense at all.
"Night sisters don't raise younglings" - everything they are saying is stupid. Of course night sisters have to be born and raised and also trained. Or are they like Rey and can do everything perfectly from the beginning?

Breaking and entering...sure why not. Doesn't come off as hostile at all. Who are the bad guys again? I know the answer of the showrunners by now.

So...how is Aniseya doing that? Having a conversation with Indara and at the same time infiltrating Torbins mind?
How is she turning his eyes black? And why is she doing that? In this episode it started way earlier, where the kids weren't even mentioned yet.

Again...what makes Osha want to become a Jedi? She met four of them and apart from the cool lightsaber there was nothing happening that could've left an impression.

How did Sol ever become a Jedi...from everything we see in this episode he is even less suited for it than Osha is.

So they make every indication to make it look like Torbin is being manipulated by Aniseya and in the end they make the incredible plot twist that it's actually Kelnacca...and that he is manipulated by the power of many?
So somewhere inbetween, Koril went behind Aniseya's back and convinced everyone in the cult to manipulate a Jedi....ok.

And all of a sudden Indara is stronger than the entire cult...but get's killed by a single knive to the chest.
I think before "The Force Awakens" Star Wars was pretty accurate and consistent with power levels...crazy how much that changed.

It bothers me that Kelnacca doesn't have any opinion of his own. Every decision and conversation in this episode is done between Indara and Sol. Even Torbin has more to say than the wookie.

I really thought they would show another cause for the fire to spread so fast and do so much damage...Guess stone really is an accelerator for fire.

So the bridge is about to collapse and Sol decides to hold it together with the force. He could've just grabbed the two little 40-60 pound girls with the force and levitated them over to him...

I really think Sol is the worst Jedi I have ever seen on screen so far.

And then they just leave...no further investigation of the "vergence", no search for survivors, nothing...

Nothing, absolutely nothing in this episode makes me think Torbin would've willingly taken that poison. Since this is the POV from the Jedi, I doubt we get a better reason..this is just not good enough.

Nothing, absolutely nothing in this episode makes me believe there was any good reason at all for the Jedi Council to allow Osha to become a Jedi...

On a side note...anybody else noticed how bored Carrie Ann Moss looked like?

37 (edited by TheFizza 2024-07-17 10:25:34)

Re: The Acolyte

OMG, now that was an excellent series... What a great ending and goodness was that

Spoiler

Plagueis in that cave

cool

Definitely the best live-action Jedi show Disney has made so far annnnnd possibly the best live-action anything to do with the Jedi they've done period... IMO, that is big_smile

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38

Re: The Acolyte

Season 2nd coming is there?

...where did I put that rat's ass I could give?

Daemons are benevolent or benign nature spirits, beings of the same nature as both mortals and gods, similar to ghosts, chthonic heroes, spirit guides, forces of nature or the gods themselves.

39

Re: The Acolyte

Finally the final, all the answers we were looking for, right? NO.
None of the important questions were answered in the end, only a minor hint (cave) about what's the cause of all.

My conclusion is, this show was a very good idea and had a great premise. The execution was just terrible.
Then we get so much nonsense thrown at us that I have to think they forgot in the next episode what happened in the previous one.
Every revelation in this show was predictable.

Spoiler

So the helmet blocks Jedi from reading or controlling the Strangers mind, but when Osha wears it she can have a mental impact on the Stranger? Does that metal only work one way?

Once again, Master Sol is just the stupidest idiot I have ever seen. And he is so emotional. Sure, restrain her but leave her droid. Come one, he is a Jedi Master - he can't be that stupid.... why does this show hate Jedi so much...

So instead of finally bringing in the head of the Jedi Council to question Venestra's ongoing investigation, they bring in a Senator who hasn't shown up before. From what I can tell she is just a "regular" Jedi Master. I would think everything between Senate and Jedi Temple would go through the Jedi Council.
At the end we finally get to see Yoda...but does she think she can fool Yoda?

The Stranger...from great evil to lapdog for Osha...I don't know how else to say this but: when did he loose his balls?!

Wasn't the egg shaped thing in the middle of the fortress their power source? How does connecting a few wires in a console then reactivate that lift?
And Venestra uses the force to open the lift doors? Does she also move the lift all the way up with the force?


That duel between Sol and the Stranger....does it look great?, yes it does. Assuming every Jedi can fight like that, the Stranger would've had his ass kicked in EP05...
Than the worst moment in lightsaber-duel history I have ever seen. Stranger and Sol cross blades with the blades on the wrong sides...yes, they hold each other forearms locked in position, but a simple movement of the wrist would still be possible. That would be all it takes for a a head to role.
Then he throws away his lightsaber after it is cut, but the tiny saber would still work, wouldn't it?

The fight between Mae and Osha...so Osha hasn't trained in years and they both had different teachers. But somehow they had the except same capability and style....must be the hair that makes them sync up.
How do both the Stranger and Osha suddenly disappear like that? I mean Osha and Mae were standing directly in front of each other with maybe 5 feet inbetween. Even if you look up, you would still notice the motion happening in front of you.

The lightsaber turning red, that is probably my absolute favorite moment of the entire show. I always wanted to see that on screen.

12 Jedi arrive, see one Jedi lying dead on the ground - 10 / 12 couldn't give a crap... They don't even acknowledge that he lies on the ground.
I now "normal" Jedi don't get emotional about another Jedis death but still, some form of reaction is necessary. Yes, I remember Obi Wan after QuiGon died, but he was still a padawan back then. Here we have a Jedi Master and Jedi Knights.

Side note: Anyone remember the trailer "Return" for the game Star Wars The Old Republic. The master dies and the Padawan felt the disturbance in the force. She briefly closes her eyes and then moves on. Imho the best reaction from a Jedi to another Jedis death I have seen so far.

It's always fascinating to see a memory wipe when the thing or person they are supposed to forget is still right in front of them. Is there a buffer period? The next 2 hours are included in the wipe?

Everyone knew that Venestra was suspicious, right? It was pretty obvious from like the second time we saw her in the show.

Let's put this one to rest and hope the next Star Wars show will be better smile

OMG, now that was an excellent series... What a great ending and goodness was that
▼Spoiler

cool

Definitely the best live-action Jedi show Disney has made so far annnnnd possibly the best live-action anything to do with the Jedi they've done period... IMO, that is big_smile

Are you serious? This show is the worst portrayal of the Jedi I have ever seen. Live action or otherwise. The way they are portrayed makes them look as stupid as regular battle droids.
If we are talking best portrayal of a Jedi in a live action tv series than it's Luke Skywalkers very brief appearance in The Mandalorian. Not much there but still a thousand times better than here.

Daemonius wrote:
Season 2nd coming is there?

No decision has been made afaik.

40 (edited by TheFizza 2024-07-18 05:52:34)

Re: The Acolyte

WilliamDrakeMcGregor wrote:
TheFizza wrote:

OMG, now that was an excellent series... What a great ending and goodness was that

Spoiler

Plagueis in that cave

cool

Definitely the best live-action Jedi show Disney has made so far annnnnd possibly the best live-action anything to do with the Jedi they've done period... IMO, that is big_smile

Are you serious? This show is the worst portrayal of the Jedi I have ever seen. Live action or otherwise. The way they are portrayed makes them look as stupid as regular battle droids.

If we are talking best portrayal of a Jedi in a live action tv series than it's Luke Skywalkers very brief appearance in The Mandalorian. Not much there but still a thousand times better than here.

Very much so... Annnnd yeah, the Jedi are monsters [kinda always have been]... and they deserved to go down! Don't get me wrong it was a tragedy but-yeah they were awful and not as competent as Luke imagined back in '77.

To my mind this series accurately captures all the Jedi's misplaced arrogance pretty well.

Speaking to that, one of the things which low-key always bothered me about the prequels was that viewer never really get an understanding of what Palpatine had against the Jedi?! I mean, yeah-sure he wanted to take over and they were in his way but it did feel as though there was some animosity the actor was playing which we never get an understanding of hmm

As for the The Mandalorian, I really didn't care for it... I've seen Spaghetti Westerns and Samurai movies, some good stuff.... that poor man's Firefly was not, tho... and it was a weird flex to have Baby Yoda murder unborn children!?

So-yeah, I'd have to disagree with Uncanny Valley Luke being a cool moment. To me it was a low point in the franchise.

And despite Ahsoka being my absolute favorite Star Wars character, the series of the same name was just meeeh.

As for all the nitpicking you did there... yeah, none of that bothered me... I could reason out why things worked out the way they did without the mental gymnastics that seem to be bogging down your enjoyment. For instance, how did Venestra get in so quickly? They came in from above and used a different door or maybe cause the lift was fixed now by Osha it was easier or maybe it's just a show about space wizards and it's okay for it to just jump to some fun scenes.

Art is subjective and from my perspective it is fine if folks do not like something I did but none of what you pointed out stopped me from absolutely loving this series and hoping for 'six seasons and a movie' wink

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41

Re: The Acolyte

TheFizza wrote:
Very much so... Annnnd yeah, the Jedi are monsters [kinda always have been]... and they deserved to go down! Don't get me wrong it was a tragedy but-yeah they were awful and not as competent as Luke imagined back in '77.

To my mind this series accurately captures all the Jedi's misplaced arrogance pretty well.

Couldn't disagree with you more on that, but that's ok - as you mentioned everyone got their own likes and dislikes.
I just can't think of any on-screen adaption so far, where the Jedi have been depicted as monsters.
In the original Star Wars trilogy we only had Ben Kenobi and Yoda from the previous generation left. No monsters there.
In the prequel trilogy and Clone Wars the Jedi surely were a bit too political and their military involvement was questionable. But I hardly would call them monsters there.
In Rebels we had Kanan, Ahsoka and Ezra - no monsters there either.

TheFizza wrote:
And despite Ahsoka being my absolute favorite Star Wars character, the series of the same name was just meeeh.

Now that is something we can agree on. Ahsoka is my favorite SW character as well. Her lightsaber duel with Maul in the 7th season of Clone Wars is the best duel imho.
The series Ahsoka was an atrocity. The moment when Sabine and Ezra reunite just destroyed me. I waited for that moment for so long and then it is that disappointing.

TheFizza wrote:
As for all the nitpicking you did there... yeah, none of that bothered me... I could reason out why things worked out the way they did without the mental gymnastics that seem to be bogging down your enjoyment. For instance, how did Venestra get in so quickly? They came in from above and used a different door or maybe cause the lift was fixed now by Osha it was easier or maybe it's just a show about space wizards and it's okay for it to just jump to some fun scenes.

Back in the day, stuff like that didn't bother me as well. But with every show I add to my watchlist it keeps bothering me more and more.

42 (edited by TheFizza 2024-07-19 03:50:15)

Re: The Acolyte

WilliamDrakeMcGregor wrote:

Couldn't disagree with you more on that, but that's ok - as you mentioned everyone got their own likes and dislikes.
I just can't think of any on-screen adaption so far, where the Jedi have been depicted as monsters.
In the original Star Wars trilogy we only had Ben Kenobi and Yoda from the previous generation left. No monsters there.
In the prequel trilogy and Clone Wars the Jedi surely were a bit too political and their military involvement was questionable. But I hardly would call them monsters there.
In Rebels we had Kanan, Ahsoka and Ezra - no monsters there either.

It's good to see we're discussing and not arguing [I wish more fans/forums were as civilized, in this age] wink

Anyways, to respond to your inquiry over where the 'Jedi Are Monsters' read came in... I feel like we didn't get that until Episode I. The original trilogy treated the Jedi as if they were errant knights with a soupçon of spiritualism mixed in. The prequels on the other hand [including TCW animated series] showed us the bureaucracy, the lies, the ineptitude and the arrogance of the Jedi Order. From their suppression of emotions and kidnaping of children to the easy way they were manipulated into becoming mass murders instead of peacemakers.

Yes, the Jedi we followed, for the most part, were not bad folks and most, like Obi, had good intentions but we all know that intentions don't always lead where one expects. That is the case with just about every thing the Jedi did as an organization. I'm not even talking about 'bad actors' like Pong Krell or, to a lesser extent, Barriss Offee but the actual institution where Ky Narec could die and his padawan fall without anyone knowing or all that Sifo-Dyas horse-hockey!

And personally I feel as though Mace was the biggest problem on the Jedi Council, he's also a huge part of Ani's turn to the dark side. If he'd been a gawddamned human being for a split second Palps might not've won... but I digress.

Now that is something we can agree on. Ahsoka is my favorite SW character as well. Her lightsaber duel with Maul in the 7th season of Clone Wars is the best duel imho.
The series Ahsoka was an atrocity. The moment when Sabine and Ezra reunite just destroyed me. I waited for that moment for so long and then it is that disappointing.

What really bothered me and ultimately why I feel the Ahsoka series didn't work for me, is that you could've done the whole first season in two episodes... The series spent soooooo much time reintroducing the characters that I was just bored. Maybe that worked for all those folks who never watched the animated series but I desperately wanted anything to happen. On top of which the fight scenes were basically garbage.

Not to mention, that from what we were shown for action it was clear that the Ahsoka of TCW and Rebels would've been able to take the live-action version of Ahsoka in a fight with her hands tired behind her back... which is nonsense, in so many ways. I feel it was an error for them not to have made the series animated. After all the wild stuff Ahsoka pulled off in the previous series she now seemed all-but powerless now.

As for Ezra, IMO he's the worst character in all of the Star Wars but whether I liked him or not he totally should have been harder to find [not just far into the runtime] or maybe even have gone dark... that would have made the build up have some meaning otherwise it was just a bunch of capable folks getting the job of recuse done... Where's the drama? The stakes? The tension? There really wasn't any, it was just a slow chase and a bunch of board meetings punctuated by training and defeats.

It was just so aggressively Meeh! By the end it even seemed as though, you could watch the last ep of it and then just start season two when it comes out! That's not cool!

Back in the day, stuff like that didn't bother me as well. But with every show I add to my watchlist it keeps bothering me more and more.

Well I can feel you there, what I often find annoying is when a series leaves the logic of the story behind for the emotional story arc... like pretty much every MCU movie and series, for example. But sometimes the fun works so well you don't care so much for the fact that none of it adds up [Infinity War/Endgame comes to mind].

I'm not saying we can't want more or expect something good, however it just seem like many usually don't reach those highs. So, I set my expectations at an appropriate level before diving in and maybe that's the key. I'm not expecting Empire Strikes Back when I tune into SW... heck if it's better than The Phantom Menace it's practically prefect.

That being said, I do feel The Acolyte was much-much better than everything Disney has done in live-action for Star Wars... aside from Andor, that is. But these are just my opinions and I appreciate you sharing yours!

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