26 (edited by paisley1 2021-03-16 19:21:49)

Re: Debris

lighton wrote:
paisley1 wrote:
Spoiler

[...] hell the Cylon's are all clones, but "instant accidental cloning" from a machine, that's a rare thing and pretty creative how it's used
[...]
Star Trek Voyager S5xE17 called Course Oblivion is Instant Accidental Cloning, well, back in S4xE24 Demon is when it happened, and you don't realize that until mid way through Course Oblivion, but you all know what I mean, you've seen it.

I've seen it, but I don't recall that AT ALL! big_smile Voyager has been a while...

Voyager's worth a re-watch. So good. smile

What's fresh and unique about episode 1x02 of Debris is that...

Spoiler

...the debris tech for cloning separates a different characteristic of a persons life experience or personality trait into each clone, so cool, but it isn't expanded upon, the cloning is simply left as a reason for Finola's father, George Jones being alive.  I assume everyone caught that, if you didn't, uh, spoiler, lol.

I surmise that the long boring talks in this episode and backstory that Finola gives about her dad and watching him die, was specific to the debris tech in this episode like a clone that said, "You're not alone", and not her real dad who we know is still alive (or vice versa).  wink 

The problem, if either of those options are the case, is that I don't care enough about these characters at all for that to be intriguing, as they've led us to care more about the tech, than human stories of connection, overcoming adversity, or the heroes journey.  If they told this episode through backstory, that is, actually showing a glimpse of what the father-daughter relationship was like in the past, then flipping to the present, I'd care far more, as this is a visual medium, I need to actually see the relationship to care about it, not just overhear it.

I think the shadowy CIA/FBI/DoD/NSA characters talking in the hanger about "what we're trying to build", just comes off flat and uninteresting when I think it's supposed to be conspiratorial and intriguing, and it's not.

27

Re: Debris

Interesting spoiler father theory, paisley1. smile I'm not so sure that is what's happening, but it's a possibility. smile

28 (edited by paisley1 2021-03-14 21:06:08)

Re: Debris

Theory? It's just as obvious as all the heavy handed writing in this show, that that's the scenario behind George Jones.  I'll tell you what, if it's not, than this show is better than I thought, and I'll move my 6.5/10 to a 7/10.  How does that sound? wink

Spoiler

During the cloning episode, there's two versions of George Jones, one everyone remembers dying 5 months ago, and the other is still alive and talked about by CIA guys, and you don't think one of them is a clone?  So what, a misdirect where he faked his death?  Everyone's memories have been tampered with? The pictures aren't true?  Different timelines going on? (Oh please be true! So much better. big_smile) Twins? lolz. Cloning just makes sense.

What's your theory? wink

29

Re: Debris

That sounds great. wink

I have no theory. I only develop a theory if a particular aspect is very intriguing... if not I use my mental capacity elsewhere and just wait for the explanation. cool

30 (edited by paisley1 2021-03-14 23:53:22)

Re: Debris

lighton wrote:

That sounds great. wink

I have no theory. I only develop a theory if a particular aspect is very intriguing... if not I use my mental capacity elsewhere and just wait for the explanation. cool

wink Awesome.

I suppose it never occurred to me that what they've set up about George Jones

Spoiler

being a clone

isn't plot but would be considered a theory.  I like it when my expectations are subverted in a way that's better than I can imagine though, given the range of possibilities for a mystery like Debris.  We'll see. wink

31

Re: Debris

Oh yeah, maybe it'll be a "WTF!? Didn't see THAT coming!" moment*. smile Love those!


* https://next-episode.net/preacher and https://next-episode.net/legion had a good amount of those, https://next-episode.net/mr.-robot (to a lesser extent) too cool

32

Re: Debris

Watched 1x3. I like this whole "discovering super-advanced tech and trying to figure out how it works" theme... makes you wonder what would happen to it if you'd take a current smartphone and drop it off to our ancestors like 25,000 years ago (that's how old the oldest human permanent settlement that has yet been found by archaeologists is). smile

paisley1:

Spoiler

Interesting new information regarding her father at the end of the episode, any new theories on your end? smile

33 (edited by paisley1 2021-03-16 21:41:10)

Re: Debris

lighton wrote:

Watched 1x3. I like this whole "discovering super-advanced tech and trying to figure out how it works" theme... makes you wonder what would happen to it if you'd take a current smartphone and drop it off to our ancestors like 25,000 years ago (that's how old the oldest human permanent settlement that has yet been found by archaeologists is). smile

paisley1:

Spoiler

Interesting new information regarding her father at the end of the episode, any new theories on your end? smile

I've been hoping for an episode like 1x03 from the beginning, as I said in my second post of this forum, I was hoping they would touch on theories from Ancient Aliens the TV series and Bob Lazar:

Spoiler

Portals leading to other dimensions like the ones in South America and the phenomenon found at the Bermuda triangle and how time can be displaced and matter compressed at these specific spots on earth, is all from theories discussed on Ancient Aliens, and even the alien tech described in this episode being "like magic" is straight from Bob Lazar's account, and it's great how they're making human stories with these theories, which is totally what I've wanted to see! Yay! wink  Bob Lazar described the technology he was working on at S4 like, taking a portable nuclear reactor and dropping it off in the Victorian era, they'd play around with it, but then people would start to die of radiation exposure and think it's a magic curse, and this show reminds me a lot of that, the tech is so far advanced we don't have the material science to create adequate solutions to the problems created by the debris.

George Jones was some sort of genius scientist, so him being alive I still maintain is debris tech related in some way, the specifics behind the apparent pseudocide could be anything from cloning, teleportation, reanimation, whatever that tech was doing in Ep1x02, etc., but at least its a mystery that keeps me interested.  What if the cloning machine in Ep1x02 was really a faulty teleportation machine?  That theory makes sense if you think about it, perhaps the reason the clones were having memory problems is because they weren't clones but partially teleported copies from a broken teleportation machine, like a fragmented printer cache buffer stuck in autoprint, printing out broken copies. wink Perhaps this tech was part of George Jones escape from the morgue.  Thoughts?

The problems I have with the show, still remain.  The solutions to debris tech mysteries are so heavy handed its infuriating as there's so little technobabble to explain why their solutions should work, ie. they just push the debris tech into the portal and everyone comes back to our dimension? Why should that work?  So heavy handed!  Also, the lead characters stories and performances are so boring, while the secondary characters stories and performances are so interesting, that it makes the leads even more in service to the debris, in episode 1x03. 

Writing TV has to be so difficult to do, I really feel for them, because I really want this show to succeed! smile

Probably my favorite episode so far. smile

34

Re: Debris

Anyone else astounded by how it rains every time and everyone has their clothes wet but faces are super dry and no rain on hair?

35

Re: Debris

paisley1:

Spoiler

Not sure what the "S4" is that you mention.

I like your broken teleportation machine = 'cloning' theory, makes a lot of sense! smile

Yes, pushing the broken debris tech into the portal to get the people out could have been done/ explained better, I agree.

I don't agree with "the lead characters stories and performances are so boring", I have a feeling the rather minimalistic approach was no accident. We'll see... smile


Easycore wrote:

Anyone else astounded by how it rains every time and everyone has their clothes wet but faces are super dry and no rain on hair?

Ha! I hadn't caught that goof, thanks for sharing. smile Since the rain was visible, maybe they were shooting those scenes (mostly) under a mobile roof? Easier to keep the cast happy that way, even more so if you have to shoot a scene several times. big_smile

36 (edited by paisley1 2021-03-18 19:09:47)

Re: Debris

Not sure what the "S4" is that you mention.

Lighton: S4 is a site within Area 51 by Papoose Lake Nevada where Bob Lazar claims to have worked on flying saucers and attempted to back engineer advanced technology in the 1980's.

Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWz4SX … owerfulJRE

Easycore: Anyone else astounded by how it rains every time and everyone has their clothes wet but faces are super dry and no rain on hair?

Lighton: Ha! I hadn't caught that goof, thanks for sharing. smile Since the rain was visible, maybe they were shooting those scenes (mostly) under a mobile roof? Easier to keep the cast happy that way, even more so if you have to shoot a scene several times. big_smile

Easycore:  What's funny is that they were pawning off lower mainland BC, where it rains all the time, as Minnesota, lol in Ep 1x03.  At least they dry the rain off the actors so we can see them. wink

37

Re: Debris

paisley1 wrote:

Not sure what the "S4" is that you mention.

Lighton: S4 is a site within Area 51 just south of Papoose Lake Nevada where Bob Lazar claims to have worked on flying saucers and attempted to back engineer advanced technology back in the 1980's.

Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWz4SX … owerfulJRE

Thanks, very cool! I've heard of Bob Lazar before, but never heard him speak about stuff. Listened to 40 minutes so far, I like it.

You were right, the recording totally fits with what happens in Debris. smile

I used to not believe in this stuff at all, but over the years I heard/ read lots of weird stuff from credible sources, like people in the military or commercial pilots.

38 (edited by paisley1 2021-03-27 02:27:43)

Re: Debris

lighton wrote:
paisley1 wrote:

Not sure what the "S4" is that you mention.

Lighton: S4 is a site within Area 51 just south of Papoose Lake Nevada where Bob Lazar claims to have worked on flying saucers and attempted to back engineer advanced technology back in the 1980's.

Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEWz4SX … owerfulJRE

Thanks, very cool! I've heard of Bob Lazar before, but never heard him speak about stuff. Listened to 40 minutes so far, I like it.

You were right, the recording totally fits with what happens in Debris. smile

I used to not believe in this stuff at all, but over the years I heard/ read lots of weird stuff from credible sources, like people in the military or commercial pilots.

Here's the map link to Area 51: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/37%C2% … 6599?hl=en
(zoom in and try placing the yellow street view man on papoose mountain lol)

If there is actual advanced tech with flying saucers and anti gravity propulsion machines, my theory is not alien.

My Theory:  This advanced tech comes from a group of pre-flood humans who cracked the genome, used what they learned on themselves, and became so genetically "advanced" they had understanding and ability far surpassing our own, effectively leaving our genome.  Bob Lazar talks about the saucers being found during an archaeological dig, and if they have their own artificial gravity field around them they could withstand anything, like an ice age or extreme pressure under water, and the 9 saucers may just be antiquated tech they left behind, after these GMO humans fled earth.

I agree with Joe Rogan's sentiment about the hosts of Ancient Aliens, they posit idea A and B and then jump to answer Z of "Aliens did it", skipping logical inference and the possibility of the intelligence of humans, making themselves look like a bunch of quacks, when the science behind the mysteries they explore could be far more possible and credible if they looked at it rationally.  In a sense, same problem on Debris so far.

Tried watching episode 1x04 three times now, and I got bored 15 mins in every time, I think I'm done with this...

39

Re: Debris

1x7. Cool idea for how to begin an episode, but...

Spoiler

I've seen Mannequin Challenges where people 'freeze' better than in that scene! big_smile

Of course, it may be that the producer wasn't aiming for perfection in that scene...

And a goof for sure: when the big airplane explodes near the end of the episode, the explosion does violate the laws of physics. Like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL697AGVDoM shows for example, the exploding fuel of course moves along the path of the crashing plane. In this Debris episode, the explosion has no velocity sidewards. But maybe I'm the only person who cares. wink


paisley1 wrote:

Tried watching episode 1x04 three times now, and I got bored 15 mins in every time, I think I'm done with this...

Maybe you just need more sleep. cool

40 (edited by paisley1 2021-04-26 07:59:32)

Re: Debris

Episode 1x07 to Lighton:

Spoiler

Of all the things to complain about on Debris, you're upset with extras not standing still enough, and the physics of a plane crash?  If you want to get technical, they could be trying to move, and the debris tech could've had something to do with the crash?  I've learned to watch this show so casually I don't pay attention to minutia that has nothing to do with the plotting; keeps the rage down. wink

In episode 1x08, I was right about Finola's father.

Spoiler

George Jones was told by the shadowy figures of INFLUX that he was reanimated from debris tech, and they told him that they can only do it once, and he is not all there mentally as he forgot Dr. Laggerie had a stroke and is confined to a facility in Idaho and he even went to visit him and didn't remember, he also didn't remember the math to an equation and asked Finola to help him retrieve it, which to me looks like the same type of memory problems the clones were having in episode 1x02.  Even still, the point of the debris tech used to create copies of people in episode 1x02 was to foreshadow that the debris tech was used to reanimate George, and this episode confirmed that, so still a 6.5/10.  If you want to get technical, we still don't know, because they haven't shown the scene of him actually being reanimated and everything that went down in that moment and how, first person backstory perspective, sorta thing, we've just been told by George, which could be a lie.

What a slug fest to sit through and watch though.  Ugh.  I still maintain my initial comment that all the secondary characters stories and performances are far more interesting than the main characters and the main story, so far.

I'm just really looking forward to the leads being slowly ignored and replaced by better actors. big_smile

41

Re: Debris

paisley1 wrote:

I'm just really looking forward to the leads being slowly ignored and replaced by better actors. big_smile

Well, not really "better", but you got a taste of that in 1x9! big_smile

Spoiler

1x9 was an interesting variation of Palm Springs (2020) and similar movies.

A (mostly) lovely episode! smile

42 (edited by paisley1 2021-04-29 19:39:27)

Re: Debris

1x09, Oh man, what an awesome episode, finally! 

Spoiler

I love temporal anomalies and time loops.  Palm Springs, big_smile really? that's your reference? not Groundhog Day or Edge of Tomorrow or SG1: Window of Opportunity? big_smile  lolz.  What's interesting is that this episode created stakes and created the type of relational connection that I love about Fringe, which is what I've been hoping this show would do, and for 8 episodes now they haven't written anything interesting for Bryan and Finola as they've only been in service to the debris, until now.  So, now I care about them.  Better late than never.  This is the type of story I've wanted from this show.

I do have a nit pick though.  They used this episode as an opportunity to flesh out Craig Maddox's rocky marriage with his wife and the first thing I said was, "why add information we already know to this episode when it's just going to be erased when Bryan jumps through time again?"  It makes no sense, unless Craig's marriage troubles are used by Bryan in some way to get back to his timeline.  Adding that whole scene instantly felt completely unnecessary given the jumps, but we'll see.

A missed opportunity in this episode would be to cast a few high profile cameos to replace Finola in the reset timeline jumps.  I wouldn't want boring nobodies cast in this show like they did, I would want higher profile hilarious people cast to replace the leads, like David Hewlett or Aaron Douglas, or anyone from Star Trek, BSG, LOST, Eureka, SG1, Atlantis, and Fringe.

43

Re: Debris

Spoiler

Yes, Palm Springs is a good reference IMHO because another person is added to the loop there too, and there are no aliens. cool

Yeah, I feel the marriage troubles were shown for a reason... we'll see. smile

Hehe, cameos would have been great in that scene!

44 (edited by paisley1 2021-04-30 08:32:59)

Re: Debris

lighton wrote:
Spoiler

Yes, Palm Springs is a good reference IMHO because another person is added to the loop there too, and there are no aliens. cool

Yeah, I feel the marriage troubles were shown for a reason... we'll see. smile

Hehe, cameos would have been great in that scene!


Haha, fair enough big_smile, I was just being cheeky, your reference totally plays, it's just not well known and luckily I've seen it, love it, and kinda want to watch it again; I'd love that kind of comedy in this show from time to time.  I think the whole reason why I struggle with this show is that these actors and their characters are just too straight laced for me.

45

Re: Debris

Last Ep was the best of the lot, so far.

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=fe18e3ede310c4d0ddb3af64211e19ec

46

Re: Debris

1x10! What a lovely and very wet episode! smile In the ocean they went again and again... a bit like in the last episode, but now with higher stakes.

47 (edited by paisley1 2021-05-05 16:48:28)

Re: Debris

1x10 finally made me care about the lead characters.  The end of the episode I thought was weak.  Too abrupt.

Spoiler

I think, but not sure, that Craig's divorce scene in the last episode and divorce papers in this episode, serve to anchor the story in a consistent reality we've been watching throughout, and that this version of Craig is similar to the last one, but he didn't go storm into the restaurant and is perhaps a better guy.  Or maybe he did  storm into the restaurant and confront his wife again and they just didn't show it??  What do you think?  Let me know.

48

Re: Debris

Spoiler
paisley1 wrote:

I think, but not sure, that Craig's divorce scene in the last episode and divorce papers in this episode, serve to anchor the story in a consistent reality we've been watching throughout, and that this version of Craig is similar to the last one, but he didn't go storm into the restaurant and is perhaps a better guy.  Or maybe he did  storm into the restaurant and confront his wife again and they just didn't show it??  What do you think?  Let me know.

I did not think about that for more than a moment, but I thought: Hopefully nobody discovers that his/ her beloved pet bird (or whatever) is gone in this new, slightly different reality... and starts the whole time-jumping/ reality-destroying process again! big_smile

49 (edited by TheFizza 2021-05-07 05:39:58)

Re: Debris

paisley1 wrote:

1x10 finally made me care about the lead characters.

Well put! I had been struggling with this series well past my usual 4 Ep Test as I really like the folks behind the series but it's been kind of bland... the only things I found interesting had been the mysterious boss and the dead father, until these last 3 episodes at least. I don't know if I will continue to care a jot about the lead characters as it goes on however I am hoping that this was the hump the series needed to start rolling [fingers crossed].

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=fe18e3ede310c4d0ddb3af64211e19ec

50 (edited by paisley1 2021-05-07 15:06:58)

Re: Debris

Spoiler

I thought: Hopefully nobody discovers that his/ her beloved pet bird (or whatever) is gone in this new, slightly different reality... and starts the whole time-jumping/ reality-destroying process again! big_smile

To Lighton:  Who's Pet Bird?  No idea what you're talking about. Also, what are you watching? Debris? Are you on the right forum?

To TheFizza, agreed, now that they've put the lead characters lives on the line which created stakes, they need to continue to write situations where they might not survive Debris tech encounters, otherwise it's back to the same problem; complaining about how heavy handed the writing is, and how bland the leads are.