Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Azrael1 wrote:

Even though it doesnt have that umph of the first season, it is moving along nicely

Yeah, while I don't find the whole Red Angel or the Search for Spock V2.0 compelling at all, I'm still enjoying it enough to keep watching but it's definitely a step down from last season.

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

It's official: CBS All Access today announced the third season renewal of Star Trek: Discovery and also that Michelle Paradise will join Alex Kurtzman as co-showrunner for season three. Additionally, Kurtzman will continue to oversee the expansion of the growing Star Trek universe for CBS Studios.

Star Trek: Discovery Gets A Third Season and A Fifth Showrunner

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

I am enjoying it a lot!!
I liked the Captain Pike and i would like to see kirk in the discovery too!

Let's see if spock will convince in the next episode! big_smile

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

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Anson Mount says Captain Pike’s Star Trek: Discovery story will not end in tragedy.


Yeah, they definitively hit the nail on the head with Anson Mount playing the role of Christopher Pike. I’ve loved Anson since Hell On Wheels, and man, he's the perfect fit to play the role of Captain Pike. His character is so drastically different from Lorca that it's like a breath of fresh air from night to day. Anson is simply tailor-made for this, and as an actor, he seems like he was born to play the role of Capt. Pike. He's definitely on the boy scout end of the spectrum when it comes to Starfleet captains, but out of the five main ones (Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Sisko, and Archer), he definitely deserves a seat at the Captain's Table. Hell, I had Anson as Capt. Pike ranked ahead of Jonathan Archer by the second episode. I've been licking my chops for almost a year waiting to watch the second season of Discovery the minute I found out about Anson Mount playing Capt. Pike. Even hardcore old school Trekkies (who don't like DISCO) appreciate Captain Pike. This guy is the real deal and has that authentic, throwback, classic Starfleet captain's swagger, confidence, charisma, strength, compassion, and leadership to prove it. A possible (yet true) Section 31 backstory piqued my interest last season, and now Capt. Pike has added to that tenfold.

Scrap any and all new projects in the works and just give me Anson Mount starring in The Adventures of Captain Pike Aboard the USS Enterprise and the USS Discovery every day of the week!! big_smile

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

This is a sad end to many years of enjoyable Star Trek franchise series. The plotting is beyond stupid, the characters don't grab me at all. So much money has been wasted on this tripe. Such a shame.

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

I enjoyed the last episode, hopefully the show will get many more seasons smile

157

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Yeah it's sad how boring and bland the cast is. The only character i found interesting was S01 Lorca. I red something about the creators tried their best to make him unlikable with his "toxic masculinity"... how's that for irony?


If they could somehow replace the entire cast that would be great. Oh and replace the writers/producers with someone creative and someone with love for sci fi and strar trek.

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

jralph wrote:

This is a sad end to many years of enjoyable Star Trek franchise series. The plotting is beyond stupid, the characters don't grab me at all. So much money has been wasted on this tripe. Such a shame.

Funny, I remember fans saying the same thing about Enterprise many moons ago. So I guess it's safe to assume that you no longer watch Discovery? No point in continuing to watch something that's going to leave you miserable in the process.

Moze wrote:

If they could somehow replace the entire cast that would be great.

And replace them with who? If the writing is atrocious and there's no direction, to go along with absurd creative choices, then I don't think it's going to make much of a difference who they bring in as replacements. Just saying. Personally, I never had a problem with any of their casting choices, and there are probably only two characters I don't particularly care for overall. The cast, the characters, and the acting was never a problem IMO.

Moze wrote:

Oh and replace the writers/producers with someone creative and someone with love for sci fi and strar trek.

Yeah, I'm afraid that ship has already sailed with Bryan Fuller at the helm. https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m225/maritajan/smileys/rollingtheeyes.gif

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Moze wrote:

Yeah it's sad how boring and bland the cast is. The only character i found interesting was S01 Lorca. I red something about the creators tried their best to make him unlikable with his "toxic masculinity"... how's that for irony?

haha weird that was also the most (only?) interesting character for me. Not from the start but in course of season 1.

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160 (edited by HomerS 2019-03-17 20:19:43)

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

2x09 finally a good Discovery episode.
Maybe it was the writers, maybe Jonathan Frakes directing it, but i finally cared a little about the crew and enjoyed the episode.

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Interesting read for those who are following this current season...

Is 'Star Trek: Discovery' Telling the Borg's Origin Story?

Only time will tell, but the one theory that does interest me is based on one of the Short Trek stories Calypso.

SPOILER ShowThe theory is that this is ultimately the setup for Zora to be the Red Angel —an evolution of the Sphere Data— by downloading herself into the suit. Discovery will be abandoned and "ordered" to hold its position in a spot where no one will find it but Burnham's mother in the future. It will have the time crystal on board, and Burnam's mother will modify the Discovery itself to be a time ship, which is ultimately going to be what is causing the Red Signals.

I know it's a lot to swallow, but I'm also very interested in seeing this theory come to fruition; as I found Calypso —along with The Brightest Star and The Escape Artist— to be the best short stories of the series. The story revolving around The Brightest Star was explained further in this season of Discovery, 2x06: The Sound of Thunder. There are only two episodes left, so we'll see where these fan theories stand before this season reaches its conclusion.

SPOILER ShowAlso, based on last weeks episode, there's really nothing new about Klingon Monks, and having time-travel tech. The Klingon Monks living on Boreth were added in TNG: Rightful Heir, and they were the ones who cloned Kahless. Worf also mentioned spending time at the Monastery on Boreth in DS9: The Way of the Warrior.

As for Klingons possessing time-travel tech, well, remember the TNG episode Firstborn, when Alexander from several decades in the future traveled back in time to prepare his younger self for an assassination attempt on his father. He had arranged the attack on Maranga IV to trigger a desire to protect Worf and had hoped to direct the young Alexander to take the warrior's path to prevent Worf's assassination later. No, still can't recall? Then how about in the VOY series finale Endgame, when future Janeway used time-travel tech —created by a Klingon scientist— to go back and give advanced technology to the "present" Janeway in the Delta Quadrant to bypass the Borg's transwarp network. There's nothing new to tell here about the Klingons possessing time-travel tech.

Furthermore, Through the Valley of Shadows reveals that Boreth also naturally produces a rare element known to non-Klingons as time crystals. The Klingons learned early on that using the time crystals to manipulate the natural flow of time was dangerous. The monks on Boreth protect the time crystals from those who would try to abuse them. So the underlying question at hand is why no one mentioned these time crystals during Worf’s visit to Boreth? The writers explain why...

“Through the Valley of Shadows” writers Bo Yeon Kim and Erika Lippoldt explained to SyFy that nobody mentioned time crystals because it wasn’t relevant to Worf’s reasons for visiting the planet.

“Boreth has always been carefully established as a sacred place for the Klingons — and that’s not something we wanted to muck up,” the writers revealed. “Instead, we wanted to EXPAND on existing canon and the functionality of Boreth by introducing a hidden sect of monks who have dedicated their lives to guarding the time crystals. We loved the notion that this otherwise fierce warrior race has learned not to mess with something as dangerous and volatile as time.

“Worf would not have been granted access to the part of Boreth’s monastery that housed the crystals,” they continued, noting “that’s not why Worf was there.” They say to explain any more about the time crystals risks “spoiling the finale episodes.”

Hey, at least now people know why the Klingons were so central to the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise. I find it comical how some of these ST fans, who consider themselves as part of the "old guard," love to bash Discovery for pulling rabbits out of their fedoras, and blatantly ignoring canonical material in the Star Trek universe, when these same complainers have absolutely no idea what they're even complaining about. Every week there are new complaints about the writers mucking up the canon, and every week there's always someone coming thru shutting it all down with a resounding thud. Probably someone true of the old guard. Debunking the "25% different" claim, in conjunction with debunking the claim that Discovery is not canon —of which the 25% theory is a pillar— was a devastating blow for the critics. Yeah, Discovery isn't perfect, and you can make a case to say that it has its fair share of problems, but the writers claim that they've been paying very close attention to canon and have seen every other series backward and forward, and so forth. They are actively looking for ways to thread needles through canon, and when they pull one off as they did in 2x12 Through the Valley of Shadows, it's incredibly subtle and remarkably brilliant IMO.

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162 (edited by CarmarthenLad 2019-04-19 15:07:19)

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

scorpius074 wrote:

... I find it comical how some of these ST fans, who consider themselves as part of the "old guard," love to bash Discovery for pulling rabbits out of their fedoras, and blatantly ignoring canonical material in the Star Trek universe, when these same complainers have absolutely no idea what they're even complaining about. Every week there are new complaints about the writers mucking up the canon, and every week there's always someone coming thru shutting it all down with a resounding thud...

I have seen all the Star Trek series as they were originally broadcast in the UK - yes, I am that old sad  - and I am enjoying this as I have enjoyed all the others.

I have watched the Trekkie bandwagon grow since TNG aired and I have to say that there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Trekkies talk more bollocks (about Star Trek TOS) than any other fanbase does about whichever show it is that they worship. The mythology that has grown up around the show is astonishing (& is 90% bullshit).

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

The conclusion I came up with a long time ago is that most of the die-hard fans from the Star Trek: TOS era–the ones who live in their own bubble universe and refuse to accept change–are an impenetrable wall of prideful, presumptuous asshats. A colleague of mine fits in this category, and he can be cool at times, as long as the conversation doesn't venture outside the years of 1966-2005. I even know a few who still haven't fully embraced DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. Trying to discuss anything remotely related to Discovery, or anything in relation to Bad Robot, will hit a brick wall of negativity traveling at the speed of sound. Keep in mind that most of these people claim not to watch any of the newer ST content, but we all know they secretly do behind closed doors. tongue

Speaking of Star Trek: Discovery, I was extremely delighted with how everything tied back to the beginning and the original series. Everything was neatly wrapped in a bow, made sense logically and left me with a deep investment in the series moving forward. It usually takes me at least three seasons to formulate an honest assessment; granted a particular series even makes it that far, [*cough* Firefly *cough*] but I will say–without giving too much away–that canonically speaking Discovery will, perhaps, indeed go where Star Trek hasn't gone before.

SPOILER ShowDISCO will provide a future look of the universe in an area very separate from Starfleet, and it won't be a glimpse into Starfleet's future, it will be more like Voyager exploring the Delta Quadrant for the first time. New worlds, new life, and new civilizations that we haven't seen before. Oh, and here's the kicker, they can't affect the canon, they can only write it moving forward...

Discovery and the Future: Star Trek's No Man's Sky Problem

Discovery and Exploration underlie the mission of the UFP, but as we work our way into the future, we run the risk of eroding into nihilism, and missing what it was that made this all worthwhile to start with.

In the TOS era, space was largely undefined, but small. This worked well. Time travel was used a bit heavy-handedly but in general, space was a linear vehicle used to drive stories forward, stories anchored in Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

In TNG, things were much the same. The Federation was fleshed out as an entity (spawning hundreds of threads about how fast warp actually is vs. how big the Federation actually is), and we received more backstory from a number of nearby empires (which were largely monocultural for the sake of narrative). Picard +/- Data replaced the trifecta. DS9 played in this world as well, with the majority of the series dominated by control of a strategic asset and subsequent war over it, anchored in human responses to conflict both external and spiritual. The TOS and TNG movies played with this space as well, with only Nemesis really having long-reaching effects on the physical universe we know of (changes on Romulus).

Voyager was flung across the galaxy and the motive force behind the story was their desire to get home. The vastness of space ensured their isolation, but even then many of the stories started to seem derivative of those that came before. Eventually, VOY anchored itself on the Borg for multiple seasons.

Every subsequent work within Trek has been insular and bound by canon on both sides: ENT, DIS, and the NuTrek movies. ENT exploded the time travel concept and dabbled in future elements created by VOY with decent success. All good.

Now, though, Discovery is going far into the future. Many threads are discussing hope of seeing a future version of the Federation. Assuming they're in the Milky Way and they're not playing a grand temporal game that caused the UFP to be destroyed somewhere along the way, we'll likely get that.


Space is too big

As we move technology forward beyond Voyager, we start to run into a problem: the sheer vastness of space. With each decade warp travel gets faster. The Universe-class ship has been described as traversing the galaxy if not other galaxies. As we speed things up, the universe may seem to get smaller, but we ultimately have to face the truth. It's too big, but for the most part, it's all the same.

No Man's Sky illustrates this. There are 18.4 quintillion planets in the game (18,446,744,073,709,551,616), and constant complaints that things aren't really that different. Now, that's a lot of planets. In the known universe, though, there are an estimated 10²⁴ stars alone, the vast majority of which likely contain planets of some kind (1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars).

If you visited 1000 stars a second, it would take you 31.7 billion millennia to visit them all. Exploration is grand, but as an entity, the Federation becomes wholly meaningless in such a universe (the same way nation-states tend to look meaningless in science fiction that has introduced alien life). As our ships get faster and we head off to other galaxies, we find new stories, but also stories that are largely the same, and as we spread our net wider, the region of space we call home starts to seem less and less important.

Voyager ran into this problem. Everything new was derivative of the original archetypes, so they stuck with something well-known. ENT and DIS benefited from what came before. But if you can zip across the universe at near-infinite speed, we start to wonder what the motivation for everything is. Everything is different, but not that different. Exploration is infinite but also finite.

We get at this occasionally, in threads wondering aloud why anyone would sign into Starfleet. The gist: "You're going to get on a ship and spend most of your life tapping at a console in engineering (most don't get to be Captain), for no pay, likely to see things that for the most part have already been discovered or are similar to the same, and possibly die in a horrific fashion somewhere along the way?" Underlying such a thought tends to be the sentiment that there isn't anything out there worth exploring anymore; why wouldn't you just stay home?

We would, of course, still explore. This is similar to saying there are more towns on Earth than you would ever visit -- and why would you? Outside of regional differences, here is not so different from down the street. This problem scales into the universe as well. There are more stores to be told, of course: Trek has never introduced a race far-older than humanity, that might view them as playthings (but are not straight-up gods a la Q).


Time is too complex

...but also more of the same.

One angle that is being discussed is that the Federation will eventually become a fourth-dimensional power, discovering other races from other times that exist outside the flow of linear time. That, similar to the discovery of warp and the rise into the galactic community, the Federation will harness time drives and rise into a new temporal community. This will be a tremendous source of story fodder, and it wouldn't surprise me if observing this transition is a direction that DIS moves in.

Ultimately, this larger temporal community suffers some unique challenges (congestion as races attempt to escape the heat death of the universe), and it'll be fun to explore them. We've explored a number already in Voyager (Year of Hell, the Q Continuum lying outside of time, its stagnation and subsequent war). But the universe, from a functional human perspective, goes on forever, as does time, and there's a limit to what truly unique things wait to be explored out there.

Q alluded to this reality in the end of All Good Things. The true exploration is not out there, but within. We see this in character interactions and discoveries, new patterns of thought being shared, and the diversities therein. Q identifies this specifically as the next step for humanity: when Picard broke through his assumptions and discovered a new way of thinking about the problems he faced. To push the boundaries not of Federation space, but of thought.

That's where, someday, Trek must go next.

r/DaystromInstitute

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Why can't people just watch it for what it is? The clue is in the title  Science FICTION !

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

handicap7 wrote:

Why can't people just watch it for what it is? The clue is in the title  Science FICTION !

This.

...where did I put that rat's ass I could give?

Daemons are benevolent or benign nature spirits, beings of the same nature as both mortals and gods, similar to ghosts, chthonic heroes, spirit guides, forces of nature or the gods themselves.

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

For those who've been keeping up with this past season of Star Trek: Discovery, here are some interesting links to follow as we prepare to embark on an incredible journey into the unknown—aka—season three...

Anson Mount And Other Departing Actors Say Their Goodbyes To ‘Star Trek: Discovery’


Alex Kurtzman Talks the Motivation Behind That Moment in the Star Trek: Discovery Second Season Finale


'Star Trek: Discovery' Finally Reveals Number One's Name
If you've been paying close attention to this past season then you should already know her name.



Sonequa Martin-Green On How ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Can Tell Its Own Story In Season 3


About That Star Trek: Discovery Borg Theory
Yeah, about that... tongue


‘Star Trek: Discovery’: How Tig Notaro Best Embodied Starfleet’s Values in Season 2


Anson Mount Open To Pike Show, But Returning To Star Trek Would Require “Creative Conversations”


Updates on Star Trek: Discovery Season 3, Michelle Yeoh's Section 31 Spin-Off, and More

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery

I hope Anson gets his own show. He, IMHO, was the best part of season 2.

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

imadsani wrote:

I hope Anson gets his own show. He, IMHO, was the best part of season 2.

Yes, good to see him bounce back with a hit after the total disaster that was "Marvel's Inhumans" (https://next-episode.net/marvels-inhumans). That show was bad enough to be a career wrecker.

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

CarmarthenLad wrote:
imadsani wrote:

I hope Anson gets his own show. He, IMHO, was the best part of season 2.

Yes, good to see him bounce back with a hit after the total disaster that was "Marvel's Inhumans". That show was bad enough to be a career wrecker.

Ha, I knew I'd seen that face before! smile

His (and others') acting in Inhumans was quite wooden (I blame the bad script), what a difference to his performance now!

170 (edited by lighton 2019-04-24 13:00:42)

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Lets not forget his incredible performance in Hell on Wheels (https://next-episode.net/hell-on-wheels). I really liked his performance in Discovery.

(Moderator edit: added link to show)

Re: Star Trek: Discovery

inkblot wrote:

Lets not forget his incredible performance in Hell on Wheels. I really liked his performance in Discovery.

Yes, he was never less than brilliant in Hell on Wheels, even when the show's high standards started to slip a little towards the end of the run.