Re: Brexit

i am from holland. in my opinion the EU is a slowly dying giant and after the brexit there will more exits in the following years. people don't recognise themselves in the policy and the decissions from Bruxelles and disagree most of them.

27 (edited by saturo 2016-06-30 01:45:48)

Re: Brexit

Kanga wrote:

As for this economic catastrophe, the markets seems to have stabilized and the growth prediction have been lowered with 0.3% for this year which I personally would consider fantastic as I feared much worse myself but that only goes to show how much fear was used as a tool in the remain campaign.

It's to early to predict how the markets to be affected but seeing as most indexes in the world is on steroids due to the low interest rates. My view is that when interest rates gets hiked this will show the market impact especially for LSE since cost of borrowing money will increase with lower credit grade.

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=fc6e0c8d5093819af704928af7847383

Re: Brexit

Kanga wrote:

The leave campaign was never in a position to promise anything, the only thing they could do was to suggest where any money saved could be used. They don't have a plan for leaving either, that would be the government who is supposed to create one and the leave campaign wasn't the government so no planning or promises, it simply wasn't their job. As for this economic catastrophe, the markets seems to have stabilized and the growth prediction have been lowered with 0.3% for this year which I personally would consider fantastic as I feared much worse myself but that only goes to show how much fear was used as a tool in the remain campaign.

The markets have stabilised since it became apparent that article 50 was certainly not going to be activated in the near future, and that even if it is activated, Britain will in all likelihood seek refuge in the EEA rather than turning their back on Europe as the Brexiters maintained.

That stabilisation though is not a recovery. The FTSE 250 (the measure of the british based companies trading with the rest of the world, rather than the FTSE 100 that represents multinationals who happen to have their market capitalisation in the City) is still well over 1000 points down, Sterling is still trading 15 cents lower and no-one, but no-one, except a handful of politicians within the leave campaign seriously believes that the UK hasn't done itself serious economic damage that will take something like 3 decades to fully unwind and then overcome. All the banks, all the hedge funds, all the trading floors around the world are in agreement, so it matters not what the politicians say. The people who make the market have decided it is a bad thing, and they are the sole arbiters - they ARE the market, so the market will reflect that.

My bet is that the next Government will go cap-in-hand to Brussels begging to be let back into the club. Whatever happens, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, chief cheerleader and principal liar of the leave campaign has run away from the problems he created, he has withdrawn from the race for the thing he has wanted most in his entire life (the leadership of the country), because he knows that whoever is Prime Minister is between a rock and a hard place with very little room to manoeuvre .

29 (edited by Kanga 2016-06-30 20:59:24)

Re: Brexit

CarmarthenLad wrote:

That stabilisation though is not a recovery. The FTSE 250 (the measure of the british based companies trading with the rest of the world, rather than the FTSE 100 that represents multinationals who happen to have their market capitalisation in the City) is still well over 1000 points down, Sterling is still trading 15 cents lower and no-one, but no-one, except a handful of politicians within the leave campaign seriously believes that the UK hasn't done itself serious economic damage that will take something like 3 decades to fully unwind and then overcome. All the banks, all the hedge funds, all the trading floors around the world are in agreement, so it matters not what the politicians say. The people who make the market have decided it is a bad thing, and they are the sole arbiters - they ARE the market, so the market will reflect that.

1. 3 decades, rofl. ~0.3% growth is not even the difference between a good year and a bad year.

2. Economists allover the place is saying that they don't have a clue on how it is going to go for UK since there is no precedent and that it depends mainly on central banks. The only thing they are sure about is a minor growthstop(see 0.3%) and that the pound will be weakened a bit, probably the ~15cents which in turn will make it slightly more competitive. It all depends on UKs own choices now as well as how the central banks are going to react.

Re: Brexit

What a lot of critics of the Brexit vote miss is the "no legislation without representation" component. Not the first time Brits took a stand on that (13th and 18th century come to mind and there were many others).

Re: Brexit

Subject: Fw: E U grants

A few thoughts to ponder.

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant ...in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan
.

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant,once employed 1,200.

Marks & Spencer manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland's Akzo Nobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-uppaid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it

dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not anymore, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market,that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,

1 You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.

2 You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business

down.

3 You don't think it matters.

Re: Brexit

Well on the bright side...there will be some sort of silver lining at one point, like someone who lost his right hand can get a kickass robothand...that sort of silver lining.

Re: Brexit

One of the UK’s leading EU law experts criticizes the referendum debate’s 'dishonesty on an industrial scale', as he considers the claims and counter claims from each side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

Re: Brexit

Wyllie wrote:

Subject: Fw: E U grants

A few thoughts to ponder.

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.

Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.

Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant ...in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.

Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.

British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.

Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan
.

Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant,once employed 1,200.

Marks & Spencer manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.

Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.

Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.

Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.

Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.

Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.

Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.

ICI integration into Holland's Akzo Nobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs

Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.

JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-uppaid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it

dry.

UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.

Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.

Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.

The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.

Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not anymore, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market,that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.

39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU

The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.

The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.

I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,

1 You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.

2 You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business

down.

3 You don't think it matters.

Not this tired old set of tropes again.

Have you even read this before you copy/pasted, let alone fact checked it?

It is baloney from start to finish, with every fact either distorted or entirely irrelevant to the EU debate. Just adding the words "with an EU grant" at the end of each sentence doesn't make it a credible argument against the EU.

Re: Brexit

Hey - it's interesting to find but not surprising to find this discussion here - but again - that the thing what interests the people and that the reason its must be discussed.
I am kind of "history buff" my self from very early age and that means over 40 years and all most EVERY time when discussion arises about EU (and Brexit to) and Europe faith, destiny and HISTORY people are tended to overlook lots of things. Mostly because that "our" mainstream media DO NOT report about them. There are like 3 big company's in the world that own basically ALL media (at least in the "western world") and they are controlled by the same people that controll "our" politicians.

But first - organization or alliance which is created by deceit or by force will not stand long.
First and best example is Soviet Union and second good one is EU.
I over lived first and probably over live the second.

In 1929 man named Coudenhove Kalergi did write a book named Practiche Idealissimus (by the way if ANY one can find a full copy of it please let me now and dont to forget to read it) wich is practically "cleaned" out from any public place - library's, book stores etc.
In it he wrote (parafrasing) that - "European root populace must be reduced from its current volume by 90% - this is the amount WE can CONTROL and MANAGE them. The void must be filled by people from Asia, Africa and Near-East or with the people that are more controllable then white Europeans. To achieve our goal ANY and ALL means are permitted and welcomed."
Lets not forget that Kalergi was one of the authors of Pan-European movement. Lets not forget that for remembering him EU parliament but a plaque with his likeness in Bruessels and the time of birthday they remembering him by visiting that place. 

So in the 2007 on of the big general in NATO told that "we must bomb the 7 country's to kingdoms come to bring them to they knees and to change the regime". The this time current goverments weren't ideal but they were not much worst then some of the allays of the EU/NATO.
So THIS bombing was that trigger to "refugee" influx. Like some previous members said - "refugee" influx jumped crime rates in ALL Europe. Worst are in Germany, Sweden and UK but other members are all so "in the loop".

I can "rant" hours the spit out information about history and current events and even gave names and dates and political affiliation on those people the are IN PURPOSE driving us in that poor state Europe is now, but it will be mostly information people are rejecting because TRUTH HURTS. Mostly it hurts when WE KNOW in side us that its the truth bud we are thinking e cant change anything. But like Brexit shows WE CAN.

Id liked VERY MUCH the EUROPE would be united but not in this way and under current conditions I salute all brits and everybody else to vote EXIT from this monstrosity called EU. I hope I can see the day when ALL DESTRUCTIVE ELEMENTS are driven OUT from EUROPE and we can live our lives in fullest.
United we stand and separated we fall.

Thanks.

Re: Brexit

stop making a billion accounts to post your bs which lacks any references.