1 (edited by cordesh 2013-04-24 19:03:20)

Topic: Theon Greyjoy's arc

Hi guys,

I'm quite confused about Theon's arc. I haven't read the books so, please don't speak about any fact that hasn't happened on TV yet.

Can someone explain to me where is he and why is he tortured like that (except if it's revealed later of course)? Have I missed something?

The last thing I remember about him is his speech and one of his guys knocking him off. I don't know why and for whom.

Thanks guys

Cheers

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

Hi, I don't think you've missed anything, it's still not known who any why etc. However.. it came as no surprise to me that someone disliked him, since he is, imho, truly despicable, with no redeeming qualities I can think of. The one who tricked him, Barry (I dont know his name, so I'll just call him Barry), seemed happy about tricking him, I bet he has a personal reason to feel like that. It's interesting, and I'm curious what will happen! smile

cordesh wrote:

I haven't read the books so, please don't speak about any fact that hasn't happened yet on TV.

I hope people will respect this.

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

apples wrote:

However.. it came as no surprise to me that someone disliked him, since he is, imho, truly despicable, with no redeeming qualities I can think of.

He surely is, even if he seems to realize what a wrong move he made. That is an interesting arc imho but I can't help to think I missed something there and that bothers me.

The one who tricked him, Barry (I dont know his name, so I'll just call him Barry)

Oh man, reading that just made me smile! So much fun with Nathan.

cordesh wrote:

I haven't read the books so, please don't speak about any fact that hasn't happened yet on TV.

I hope people will respect this.

If someone don't, I couldn't care less wink

Cheers dude

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

cordesh wrote:

he seems to realize what a wrong move he made

I just get the feeling that what he regret most is that it didn't work though? Had he not lost Winterhell I don't think he would regret killing those children as much, or at all. I could be wrong though, it's just my impression of him.

cordesh wrote:

So much fun with Nathan.

Haha yes! As soon as I saw him I thought "Save me Barry!" smile

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

apples wrote:
cordesh wrote:

he seems to realize what a wrong move he made

I just get the feeling that what he regret most is that it didn't work though? Had he not lost Winterhell I don't think he would regret killing those children as much, or at all. I could be wrong though, it's just my impression of him.

Meh, I'm not sure. When he expressed his regrets, he though he was about to join his sister with all the luxury that comes along. The torture part all was behind him, so he thought.

I think the mind game from Barry made a lot of effect because he came to realize/think that his father really despite him. So he confessed what he really feel about all of this.

Well, that's what I think. We'll see what happens.

cordesh wrote:

So much fun with Nathan.

Haha yes! As soon as I saw him I thought "Save me Barry!" smile

LOL

Fot me, it's:

- Who is Barry?
- You are!

Man, so funny...

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

cordesh wrote:

When he expressed his regrets, he though he was about to join his sister with all the luxury that comes along. The torture part all was behind him, so he thought.

Good point. I must ponder this a bit I think.

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

I was sure there was mention about this in the show and after scanning through episode 8 in season 2 we get the answer about 35-36 minutes in. Robb Stark sits at a table talking to Roose Bolton. Roose Bolton says that his bastard son is close to Winterfell with an army. Robb Stark then tells Roose Bolton about the plan to offer the iron born free passage if they surrender. Everyone but Theon Greyjoy.

The bastards name is Ramsay Snow (Snow is the name given to bastards born in the north, other parts of the kingdom give other names to bastards. Usually something related to the area like Rivers or Sand.)

+ show spoiler

Ramsay Snow is not only born out of marriage but he is also a bastard

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

I have read the book, so I'll be gentle ;p

You're not supposed to know yet, it will be revealed in all good time. I actually thought this thread was gonna be on another topic.

This isn't quite a spoiler, but it is a general fact about Theon through book 3-4. And that is

+ show spoiler

he is not in them. He resurfaces in book 5. Why he does this, you might deduce yourself..

.

That being said, Theon is much more of a disgusting guy in the books. In the tv-series, the writes actually try to make som sympathetic treats to him. Like making him write a letter to Robb about the sacking of Winterfell (but then burning it), and also him telling the guy ho "freed" him that he made the wrong choice in following his father. None of this happens in the books.

Not just the Spanish maine my love. The entire ocean. The entire world!

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=7b21315a0c2bce4fa4716b05990b6ff0

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

drizzel wrote:

I was sure there was mention about this in the show and after scanning through episode 8 in season 2 we get the answer about 35-36 minutes in. Robb Stark sits at a table talking to Roose Bolton. Roose Bolton says that his bastard son is close to Winterfell with an army. Robb Stark then tells Roose Bolton about the plan to offer the iron born free passage if they surrender. Everyone but Theon Greyjoy.

The bastards name is Ramsay Snow (Snow is the name given to bastards born in the north, other parts of the kingdom give other names to bastards. Usually something related to the area like Rivers or Sand.)

+ show spoiler

Ramsay Snow is not only born out of marriage but he is also a bastard

Now now, his name IS Ramsay Bolton. He is legitimized wink

Not just the Spanish maine my love. The entire ocean. The entire world!

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=7b21315a0c2bce4fa4716b05990b6ff0

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

Vana stop screwing around and check Vikings thread please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

Vana wrote:

Now now, his name IS Ramsay Bolton. He is legitimized wink

+ show spoiler

He has not been legitimized yet so he is still Ramsay Snow. That happens after the red wedding.

12 (edited by apples 2013-04-25 15:00:40)

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

drizzel wrote:

I was sure there was mention about this in the show and after scanning through episode 8 in season 2 we get the answer about 35-36 minutes in. Robb Stark sits at a table talking to Roose Bolton.

Aha, so I did miss it smile Is it one of the many scenes where weathered men mumble in shady rooms? Sometimes I kind of skip those.

Edit: I think I have a vague memory of that scene, though I didn't really know who Robb was until yesterday as you know.

Edit2: I think the nice thing about this show is how it makes me think of what could have been, the remote possibilities. I know the show is not about happy endings etc, it's about fighting in vain and greed and power hungry men and women perishing under the heartless and mean. But in all this, there are the good things, the asphalt flowers if you will, and I like thinking about what could be, even though it won't.

13 (edited by apples 2013-04-25 20:29:04)

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

Before i forget it, this was on my mind today. What if...
Arya, and the rest of the good people, branflake, dany, meera, etc travel to the north to see jon because that's nice and also they've all had it with meanies and evil people like theon and jamie and need a change of scenery. the whole idea begin with varys sending a raven to dany telling her to please stay put because he's sending davos seaworth with some ships to come pick them up and so they should pack only what they need, but since he's varys his plan is really to get the super soldiers to the north to fight the white walkers, which is not a bad idea if you give them hats and stuff to wear against the cold climate. he's trying to be good. to better himself. anyways, they all arrive and jon is all like "aww, you guys....! <3" and the wizard in varys box gets so excited that he accidentally transform bran into his dog/wolf, which also turn out better than expected because 1) now he can use his hind legs and 2) osha always wanted to pet him like a dog, running her hand through his soft hair down his back and patting his firm buns a little and 3) he goes frog hunting with meera, they become quite close, and in solidarity with bran now being a dogwolf they all sleep in a big cuddlepuddle on blankets on the floor except for dany and jon who have their own bed because of reasons, and when i say floor i mean a real house floor that davos built because once they got there he proved to be a skilled carpenter (no fingers left to hit with the hammer) and he build houses from the ships which they dont needst anymore and at first varys is still a bit cold and not trusting and he tries to get rid of seaworth but he replies "i'll leave when im good and ready..." and they look at each other in a strange way and that's that. eventually they all get along well and they take turn riding the dragons when they are not too busy and ygritte is happy for jon and dany and even though he still know nothing they decide to leave it like that.
they are happy.

edit:

http://i.imgur.com/R0LeJ3H.gif
Fig. 1.  Bran

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

That is a great idea. Hodor could help carry heavy things for Davos cause Hodor is very strong.

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

A thing I missed about Theon early on was that the kids he killed instead of Bran and Rickon were possibly (almost probably) his own kids hmm

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

peter wrote:

A thing I missed about Theon early on was that the kids he killed instead of Bran and Rickon were possibly (almost probably) his own kids hmm

Did I miss that in the books?  If not, do you think it's just because he was such a horndog and, um, "took tea" with so many of the local women?

17 (edited by peter 2014-08-05 21:00:36)

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

TeaAndApathy wrote:
peter wrote:

A thing I missed about Theon early on was that the kids he killed instead of Bran and Rickon were possibly (almost probably) his own kids hmm

Did I miss that in the books?  If not, do you think it's just because he was such a horndog and, um, "took tea" with so many of the local women?

With her specifically actually. spoilers ADWD:

+ show spoiler

In Winterfell we read about this:
“I have done terrible things ... betrayed my own, turned my cloak, ordered the death of men who trusted me ... but I am no kinslayer.”
“Stark’s boys were never brothers to you, aye. We know.”
That was true, but it was not what Theon had meant. They were not my blood, but even so, I never harmed them. The two we killed were just some miller’s sons. Theon did not want to think about their mother. He had known the miller’s wife for years, had even bedded her."

he gets called kinslayer by three northerners in that chapter (ghost in winterfell).

if you like the long theory, here's a good page:
http://branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Kinslayer.html

there is a bit more too in the winds of winter released chapters supporting it, but not quite confirming i guess.

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

I doubt it since Theon is 20. And Bran is 9 and Rickon like 6. Unless he was hooking up with that miller's wife since he was 11 years old.

Re: Theon Greyjoy's arc

tfurrows wrote:

I doubt it since Theon is 20. And Bran is 9 and Rickon like 6. Unless he was hooking up with that miller's wife since he was 11 years old.

Depends... They changed the age of characters for the show a bit. The sack of Winterfell took place in 299 AC, so Theon is actually 21, Rickon is 4, and Bran is 9. That would mean Theon slept with the millers wife at age 12, which, yes, seems unlikely. Maybe the simplest explanation is that it's just one of the things adding to the horror of the whole situation, the possibility that at least one but maybe both are his.
If we were to try to find evidence for it though, there are two things that come to mind.

1) Grrm hate dates, distances and specific times. In several interviews he's said that he is deliberately vague on distances and times because he's not concerned with everything adding up perfectly with travels and such.

2) Consider Wex, his squire during the sack of Winterfell. Wex is 12, and Theon find it natural that he should be seeking out sex. When he's looking for Wex his first thought is that he is with a prostitute.
" “Wex, - he shouted over the din and clatter. If he’s up with one of those poxy whores, I’ll strip the hide off him, he was thinking when he finally spied the boy, dicing near the hearth... and winning too, by the look of the pile of coins before him."

But, there is no way to know, just like so many other things in life. What's in the shadowlands beyond Asshai? Did Gendry sleep with his sister? What happened to the Stark who sailed west? Who is Coldhands? Etc. It's realistic that some things we may just never know. Is the black cat in Kings Landing Rhaenys kitten Balerion grown up? Questions, questions, questions...

Actually. spoiler ADWD:

+ show spoiler

Balerion the cat could serve the same purpose that Mormonts crow did for Jon. I find it more than plausible that Bloodraven has been warging into that crow to steer events, including making Jon Lord Commander for example, there is a pattern in how that crow repeat words when they have significance or not. Anyways, Jon got his approval with the help of the crow, and either Dany or Aegon could arrive in Kings Landing and find Balerion, a mean cat, old as sin, purring and jumping up in the lap of the "true heir", thus fulfilling what the golden cloaked member of the city watch once said: "that cat is the real king of this castle".
Cats are everywhere. Ser Pounce (the pounce that was promised), Cat Stark, Cat 'o the canals, etc. I fully expect Lord Baelish to one day wear a grey cat-sweater when he and Alayne kick back after a hard days scheming to listen to some singer who is nervous like seven hells because of Marillion sing about the Bear and the Maiden fair and they're like "re-runs all the time, what else is playing?" and the singer must go through the first phrases of pretty much all the known songs and even the bawdy ones which makes Alayne squint and Petyr wave away while blushing and throwing a quick glance towards Sansa but then when they are alone he's all like oh Sansa your hair is.. very pretty, and she's like "thanks petyr, that's quite nice of you to say... again." and they sit in silence for a long time until Sansa takes a deep breath and holds it and says "mmm..." and petyr look at her and tell her to say what's on her mind and she's just like "Petyr.. whatever happened to my bestest friend Jayne Poole?" and Littlefinger is like "um.. um.. well.. um.. I took care of her for a while, but then.. I think she's married or something now, not sure.." and sansa is like "oh that's nice, i hope she's happy" and petyr has to look away because he feels so bad about the whole thing, he truly does, and then the singer is going through who wrote what and which lord sponsored the song and the composer etc so they tell him to shut up and then later sansa feel like the vale of arryn isn't all that, just like harrenhall it could be conquered by dragons if they were to return and that's simultaneously a scary and liberating feeling because lately all the lemoncakes in the world cannot make her forget the taste of her true loves lips and she'd tear down every stone (except mya) of the Eyrie if she could meet her dog again but some things are not meant to happen and some things are meant to happen but wont anyway and that's just how it is like stannis once said but fortunately he's got the Red Woman and his Hand to help him realize how the horse must go before the cart and when the King who Cared came to the wall the others were very surprised and said they didn't think anyone would answer their call for help but Stannis the Mannis, rightful King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First men, protector of the realm, just looked out over the wall and said "Were it not for my Hand, I might not have come at all." which made Tormund shout HAR! and the Red Woman looked at him disapprovingly like "seriously?" but that's how it is in the north, giants roam the lands and nobody is that interested in pleasantries and courtesies, it's a dog eat dog world basically, and sometimes people get eaten too, not only on Skagos but Biter tried to eat Brienne and Bran might have eaten Jojen(?) and I guess Jon and Ygritte should sort of count too not to mention Wyman Manderly and his pies.