Topic: 4x01

Overall I liked this episode, though the 'not real Red John' is a bit farfetched.

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Re: 4x01

I liked the episode too right until the end where they turned to resurrect Red John. Would have liked if Jane had really killed him and it would have brought the show to some new waters but i guess they didnt wanted to take the chance for changing Jane in general.

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Re: 4x01

how did you like it??
I thought it was one of the worst season opening episode ever!
Seriously?? arresting Jane, a trail and being released all in 42 minutes episode?? ridiculous...  mad

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Re: 4x01

oh come on
The majority of the Crime Shows solve their cases in 42 mins.
I liked that they didn't streched it over five episodes or longer.
But i have to agree with themanticors I didn't like that it probably wasn't really Red John....

Re: 4x01

they could have made it at least 2 episodes...
besides that it was very very kitschy... the dude shot a guy, was caught on tape and got released!! please... give me a break....

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Re: 4x01

yeah, it's not like he's batman. although i have to admit i enjoyed the ep despite it being grossly farfetched.

Re: 4x01

I agree with Mike on the 42 min release thing. They should have done this episode in a 2 hour season opening premiere but in general there wasnt much to do(film) in this episode scriptwise i believe since they wanted to un-kill Red John and making Jane go after him again they had to speed wrap it in a episode like this.

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8 (edited by xrnzaaas 2011-09-23 22:45:50)

Re: 4x01

What a weak episode... I mean, first of all, setting a bail for a person that theoretically could receive a death penalty? Second of all, why resurrect Red John? They should've ended that storyline and moved on to a new shady character... or at least to someone that isn't called 'the only true 100% original Red John'. Overall I must say I'm very disappointed. I've stopped watching the show during season 3, but then I found out that it ended with the death of Red John and this alone forced me to watch the rest. Now I feel like I've been cheated and I don't think I'll play the same illusive game for the second (or third or fourth?) time. <yammering mode off>

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Re: 4x01

themanticors wrote:

I liked the episode too right until the end where they turned to resurrect Red John. Would have liked if Jane had really killed him and it would have brought the show to some new waters but i guess they didnt wanted to take the chance for changing Jane in general.

+1 On that. Kind of disappointed with the "ressurection" of Red John even though i was waiting for something like that..anyway lets wait and see how it will be unwraped during the season.

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Re: 4x01

Yeah, it kind of....makes the finale of last season less incredible. It was well done...I mean, there were good twists and points of mystery/suspense...but it undermined the integrity of the show a bit.

-Rob

Re: 4x01

See, I was in the same boat you guys are in - see my post in this forum from a few days ago - but after seeing this episode I changed my mind. I think the episode worked extremely well and complimented last season's finale perfectly.

You can bitch about the inaccuracies of the depicted justice system (bail for a possible death penalty), but it just seems silly since you are accepting the premise of a guy who can cold-read people so well that he can just walk into a casino / to a mobster and win millions of dollars. By the same logic the gangster would have sooner killed Jane than given him the million dollars. Also the DA and the judge usually set the bail after reviewing the accused financials and means of attaining money. And since no bank would lend a normal working stiff a million dollars and bail bondsmen don't even dream of that kind of money, one million dollars pretty much equals no bail for most people. But of course not for "Magic Jane."

As for the trial, far-fetched, yes, but not by as much as you would think. I like how Law&Order and the slew of copy cat crime shows keep the faith into the US justice system alive. Juries set more criminals free than anyone is comfortable to admit, be it because of "insufficient evidence" (everyone expects clear fingerprint and DNA evidence they are used to from CSI in real life) or sympathy (as was the case here). Of course it goes both ways and you are better off trying any heinous crime where the sympathy would clearly lie with the victim in front of a judge only. And then of course you forget that "Magic Jane" is a master manipulator of people and crowds - he was a "medium," basically doing that for a living before - and the show is called The Mentalist, so I don't really see anything out of the ordinary for the show in what he has done.

As for hurrying through the events - honestly, knowing this is where they were going all along, would you have wanted to spend more time on it? I for one am happy that since it was all meant to be an almost meaning-less charade they got it over and done with this fast.

But here's why I think the episode worked really well: Yes, it did lessen the impact of last season's finale, but it also changed our (and Lisbon's) view of Jane quite substantially. I was a big advocate of ending the show after the third season, because like it or not, the hunt for Red John is the heart of the show. You cannot take Jane and just make him hunt somebody else after he's killed Red John. The obsession with Red John is Jane's most defining characteristic and you can't change it without making Jane into somebody completely different. You can try to do that through (hopefully smart, slow-paced) character development, but if there was something the show has in its three years never budged on it was Jane's clear and unwavering intention to murder Red John if he gets the chance, i.e. no development there. If the show tried changing Jane than maybe you could attempt to salvage the show after Red John's murder because it would be interesting to see how Jane copes without this major purpose in his life. But Bruno Heller clearly doesn't want that.

So he resurrected Red John, which I admit feels like cheating, but he gave us something new in return: a look of Jane's much darker side. So far Jane was a very good guy who just professed his wish to kill somebody, but hardly had a chance to act on it. Now we've seen him kill somebody in cold blood and get away with it by lying. Sure, the show try to tell us that the guy Jane shot kind of deserved that, but suddenly Jane isn't a good guy anymore. Jane is literally stepping over dead bodies in his obsession with Red John and is using the public's good will after saving that girl to make everyone turn a blind eye towards his crime.

That for me is a fascinating development and well worth the episode's time. That kind of reveal makes it for me a worthy followup to last season's mesmerizing finale and I can't wait where they will take the show this season.

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Re: 4x01

I'm alongside the "KInd of ruined a great moment by it not being red john".

Although, there is still the option that it really WAS Red John; Jane's whole life revolves around hunting him, and without that hunt he's left with nothing. So by refusing to believe Red John is dead, he allows himself to carry on, albeit in futility.
They'd never actually have that happen, but I do think it's an interesting idea.

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Re: 4x01

I thought about that too last night that maybe they actually killed Red John and that Jane couldnt let himself win and try to forget even maybe start to forgive himself. It would be pretty awesome if they actually went that way and Jane went crazy maybe afterall but for actually for having no possible vendetta anymore.

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Re: 4x01

I have a question about the trial. I don't really have an understanding of the trial process anyway and the fact that we don't have the jury system here in Turkey doesn't help either. I always thought that the jury was there to determine whether the charged was guilty or not in case they didn't accept the charges. In Jane's case, he obviously pleads guilty. I'm assuming that a mistake that big wouldn't fly, so could anyone elaborate on this in a couple sentences?

Re: 4x01

Its called Jury Nullification.
Short enough?

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Re: 4x01

Short enough for sure, but I didn't get the answer to my question. Oh well, never mind. I'll just assume they always bring the jury in for murder cases.

Re: 4x01

Jane admitted that he was guilty of killing the guy, but that he shouldn't go to prison for getting revenge. You can admit you did a crime it's just not the same as accepting the punishment for the crime. Everyone here in the States is guarantee a trial by peers, so while the law say's he should go to prison for 25-Life (usually the case for premeditated murder) you can take your case to court in the hopes the jury finds differently. Saying your mentally insane, or claiming self defense is just a few of the many ways you can be found not guilty by a jury when you break the law.

Jury nullification explains it best because he clearly broke the law and had no defense that is acceptable by our laws, but the jury found him not guilty anyways, finding what he did to be just.

Re: 4x01

Thanks rwings.