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- xzeal
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Topic: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
An excellent episode, but 3 months until the next one is TORTURE, I would be much happier if the season finales and half-season finales would suck - it would be much easier to cope with the wait. Even though this was the first part of a 2 part episode I am glad they did not end it with an absurd cliffhanger.
- XtazyMike
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
it was a very good episode, very good!
- Brom
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
a brilliant episode. I'm loving the fact that they're weaving the story through multiple series.
Has failed his lurker exam and posted
- Rwings
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Well I can't say that I'm surprised River turned out to be her since it was the obvious choice, but now the question arises how does The Doctor tell them he knows when she will die. The Library episode just gets more heart breaking the more time goes by.
- marco1475
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Rwings wrote:The Library episode just gets more heart breaking the more time goes by.
Yes, very much so. Every time a romantic "milestone" between the Doctor and River was reached (first/last meeting, first/last kiss, her fear of the moment when he won't recognize her, etc.) the ending of The Forest of the Dead - already incredibly sad and heartbreaking - became even more so. Honestly, who River is took me by surprise. I might have entertained that idea at some point in the past, but it certainly wasn't on my mind when the revelation came. I thought the episode was simply breathtaking. It was smart and funny, yet the whole time there was the undercurrent of danger and apprehension of it all being a trap. And the last five minutes were just brilliant. "Demons run when a good man goes to war, night will fall and drown the sun, when a good man goes to war. Friendship dies and true love lies, night will fall and the dark will rise, when a good man goes to war. Demons run but count the cost, the battle's won, but the child is lost." The poem is great and I also loved how they worked "the only water in the forest is the river" into it in a way that it made perfect sense. All in all I can't wait the three months until September for new episodes ... Damn you Moffat! ▼Spoiler Huge props for the scene where Rory, dressed as a Centurion, breaks into Amy's cell holding their daughter - that was bad ass and heartwarming at the same time, even knowing what happened to the baby afterwards. Interestingly now that we know that River is Amy's and Rory's daughter and can regenerate it puts her death in Forest of the Dead into a new perspective. They said something along the lines of that even the Doctor would not be able to survive it, so I don't expect them to undo River's death with a regeneration, but it sure sounds like a backdoor to bring her back if need be.
"We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go." -- Colonel Tigh
- Rwings
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
▼Spoiler Her saying that even The Doctor wouldn't be able to regenerate puts the sacrifice even higher, because River could have lived for ever but her choice to die in the Doctor's place is even more of a sacrifice if you think of everything she was giving up for him. I guess the argument against that though would be if the Doctor died in that moment she would have never existed therefor creating a paradox in of it's self so she had to die so she could live. It's an interesting thing going with this show if you think about it, it will be quite hard to top these last two seasons.
7 Reply by Hr. Ulottuvuus 2011-06-05 05:50:47 (edited by Hr. Ulottuvuus 2011-06-05 06:08:16)
- Hr. Ulottuvuus
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
and now we know when Amy was kidnapped... before america said the Doctor... ps. waiting is a bitch tho...
what doesn't kill you - hurts even more...
8 Reply by Halo2 2011-06-05 09:48:02 (edited by Halo2 2011-06-05 09:54:40)
- Halo2
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Ha, it's so obviously looking at it now... Melody - Song Pond - River Great episode, though does that mean River has been in prison ever since the end of episode 2 (ie. 1970ish)? EDIT: Oh and who was Lorna Bucket? I don't remember a little girl in any forest (ie, Silence/Forest of the Dead (and she isn't the girl in the moon in those ones) or Angels/Flesh and Stone)...
9 Reply by Rwings 2011-06-05 10:46:02 (edited by Rwings 2011-06-05 10:46:50)
- Rwings
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Well there's two possibilities to who Lorna Bucket is, the first being we have yet to see the forest episode therefor it will be in a future episode, but the second and most likely choice given the information we have is that she was in an adventure that we will never see. I see this being the best option given that if he's considered a great warrior there and that means he's still on the warriors path that's he been on rather then on the healer type path that I think River was trying to fix at the end of the episode. Also it's also a thousand times more tragic, her death if you think about it having us never know who she was. So many people die protecting/helping The Doctor and she does it having only known the Doctor for the '30 seconds' he was at her home planet. The Doctor changes the life of everyone he meets even those he never remembers. Thinking about it she dies for a man that doesn't even remember her that's how much he means to everyone he touch's. I can't think of one other person in the world and in every show I've seen that has a character that anyone and everyone gives there life's for after only being with them for a short time.
10 Reply by Kal 2011-06-05 10:47:17 (edited by Kal 2011-06-05 10:50:26)
- Registered: 2008-11-20
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Halo2 wrote:EDIT: Oh and who was Lorna Bucket? I don't remember a little girl in any forest (ie, Silence/Forest of the Dead (and she isn't the girl in the moon in those ones) or Angels/Flesh and Stone)...
It could be that he hadn't met her yet; I know he said he remembered, but he knew he was talking to a dying girl who had just sacrificed herself for him and his friends, and "run"... well, the doctor always runs. I have a feeling that that, and "it's time to stop running" is going to be a theme in the second half of the season. Particular lines from that poem that stood out for me: "Friendship dies..." - possibility Amy never "gets over" this? "True love lies..." - can we really trust anything River Song tells us? Maybe this whole thing is just one giant set-up After watching this episode, I wanted to check on River's reactions the first time she and Amy meet. Amy meets River for the first time in "The Time of Angels", but that may well not be the first time River meets Amy (as an adult, anyway!) River didn't seem to show any special reaction towards Amy, so I suspect not. Anyway, while watching "The Time of Angels" I noticed one particularly outstanding thing. In the scene at the very beginning where the Doctor and Amy are arriving at the museum where they find the message from River, the Doctor mentions that, "this isn't any old musuem, it's the final resting place of the Headless Monks." I thought that was an interesting little tidbit
- Halo2
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Rwings wrote:Well there's two possibilities to who Lorna Bucket is, the first being we have yet to see the forest episode therefor it will be in a future episode, but the second and most likely choice given the information we have is that she was in an adventure that we will never see.
Kal wrote:Halo2 wrote:EDIT: Oh and who was Lorna Bucket? I don't remember a little girl in any forest (ie, Silence/Forest of the Dead (and she isn't the girl in the moon in those ones) or Angels/Flesh and Stone)...
It could be that he hadn't met her yet; I know he said he remembered, but he knew he was talking to a dying girl who had just sacrificed herself for him and his friends, and "run"... well, the doctor always runs. I have a feeling that that, and "it's time to stop running" is going to be a theme in the second half of the season.
But it was the odd way we were introduced to her, and knowing her name, like we were supposed to know who she is, I suppose we might bump into her eventually... Kal wrote:Anyway, while watching "The Time of Angels" I noticed one particularly outstanding thing. In the scene at the very beginning where the Doctor and Amy are arriving at the museum where they find the message from River, the Doctor mentions that, "this isn't any old musuem, it's the final resting place of the Headless Monks." I thought that was an interesting little tidbit
Good spot! Though I didn't really understand/get the point of the monks, their only purpose seemed to be so the Doctor could hide among them at the start.
12 Reply by Kal 2011-06-05 11:14:39 (edited by Kal 2011-06-05 11:19:02)
- Registered: 2008-11-20
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Halo2 wrote:But it was the odd way we were introduced to her, and knowing her name, like we were supposed to know who she is, I suppose we might bump into her eventually...
I think the unusually strong emphasis on her name in that introduction was supposed to be making the point that her name was well-known amongst the army because of her encounter with the Doctor. It's setting things up for her turning out to be an ally, and also furthering the important point about what a Big Deal encounters with the Doctor are, and hence the whole Doctor-means-Warrior Forest Language bit. As for whether or not the Doctor has actually met her yet, another possibility is that she's simply someone the Doctor has met in one of his many, many off-camera adventures of course, but it wouldn't surprise me for Moffat to do a callback to this girl in a future episode, it's certainly his style
- Registered: 2011-06-05
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Rwings wrote:▼Spoiler Her saying that even The Doctor wouldn't be able to regenerate puts the sacrifice even higher, because River could have lived for ever but her choice to die in the Doctor's place is even more of a sacrifice if you think of everything she was giving up for him. I guess the argument against that though would be if the Doctor died in that moment she would have never existed therefor creating a paradox in of it's self so she had to die so she could live. It's an interesting thing going with this show if you think about it, it will be quite hard to top these last two seasons.
Hi, first time posting About River, she already said that she feared the day the Doctor wouldn't even recognize her more than anything, and that it probably would kill her.. I guess her death in the library makes sense in more ways than just a sacrifice. Maybe a little bit of a suicide too? Or at least a willingness to die, given that she would never even meet the Doctor again in her life... I love how that one episode keeps gaining gravity as the show goes on ... As for her mother, I'm guessing they either spent/will spend a lot more time together, maybe even in a more linear order, or they're almost complete strangers. Her reactions to Amy were nowhere near as dramatic as with the Doctor. I just hope we get to see
- herusardo
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
that basically cleared all the flaws of the previous episodes
Everybody lives, just this once, everybody lives!
- Brom
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
only doctor who could be back in 'LETS KILL HITLER' brilliant!
Has failed his lurker exam and posted
- marco1475
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Kal wrote:Halo2 wrote:EDIT: Oh and who was Lorna Bucket? I don't remember a little girl in any forest (ie, Silence/Forest of the Dead (and she isn't the girl in the moon in those ones) or Angels/Flesh and Stone)...
It could be that he hadn't met her yet; I know he said he remembered, but he knew he was talking to a dying girl who had just sacrificed herself for him and his friends, and "run"... well, the doctor always runs. I have a feeling that that, and "it's time to stop running" is going to be a theme in the second half of the season.
I'm inclined to believe that she's just supposed to be somebody the Doctor met in an off-screen adventure. It seems possible that he will travel into her past and meet her there (i.e. in his future), but given how many of even the Doctor's allies were from spin-offs and off-screen adventures (at least I had trouble recognizing a vast majority of them) I think she was a throw-away character meant to emphasize how big an impact the Doctor makes even on people who meet him for 30 seconds. Kal wrote:After watching this episode, I wanted to check on River's reactions the first time she and Amy meet. Amy meets River for the first time in "The Time of Angels", but that may well not be the first time River meets Amy (as an adult, anyway!) River didn't seem to show any special reaction towards Amy, so I suspect not.
That was my first thought too, but then I realized that because River's and the Doctor's timelines are running in opposite directions it means when Amy/Rory met River for the first time, it was the last time for River. River meeting her parents for the first time (and probably having an emotional reaction to it) will occur in some future episode, i.e. in Amy/Rory's future and River's past. That's going to also be the last time Amy and Rory will see River (as an adult I presume). Kal wrote:Anyway, while watching "The Time of Angels" I noticed one particularly outstanding thing. In the scene at the very beginning where the Doctor and Amy are arriving at the museum where they find the message from River, the Doctor mentions that, "this isn't any old musuem, it's the final resting place of the Headless Monks." I thought that was an interesting little tidbit
Great catch. A couple more notes now that I had time to think about stuff: - We still don't know if the girl in the spacesuit is your River/Melody or not. - We don't know who is in the spacesuit that kills Future Doctor. - This episode was more of a game changer than it seems - Future Doctor, before dying, said that he's been running for a long time (presumably the 300 years since the events of this episode until his death in this season's opener), so whatever army stole Melody used her (or similarly bred children) to really raise an army against the Doctor, which had a major impact on his life, forcing to run instead of just wander through time and space, solving problems.
"We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go." -- Colonel Tigh
- Rwings
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Re: S06E07 A Good Man Goes To War
Having re-watch the first 8 episodes of season 5 this episode is just so much more amazing since the episode recalled so many things that happen in those episodes, at least one reverence to every single episode was called back in this episode.
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