Topic: Season 8

Seriously, no one talking about this?

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2 (edited by scorpius074 2019-04-18 05:38:17)

Re: Season 8

Spyder23 wrote:

Seriously, no one talking about this?

I suspect people are; just not here. Let me kick things off...


+ show spoiler
Bran wrote:

I'm waiting for an old friend

They need wheelchair ramps in Winterfell. They left Bran in the courtyard overnight! smile


Parallelism between Season 1 Episode 1 and Season 8 Episode 1
   

+ show spoiler

1. S01E01 Winter Is Coming. S08E01 Winterfell.
    2. Opening shot of the King and Queen arriving with the same soundtrack called "The King's Arrival."
    3. S01E01 Winterfell showed grass but S08E01 it’s covered in snow.
    4. The kid from the beginning was climbing on trees to get a good view, similar to Bran climbing the castle to get a good view. He was made to look similar to Bran in the Pilot.
    5. Arya being a kid watching the King coming, compare to her letting a kid get a good view of the Queen coming.
    6. S01E01 Jamie is arriving at Winterfell taking off his Golden Lannister Helmet and showing his blond hair, clean shave, and everyone staring at him. S08E01 Jamie arriving in Gray cloaks and taking a hood off to show darker hair and a beard and no one except Bran noticing him.
    7. Both episodes ending with Bran and Jamie, except this time Jamie looks terrified.
    8. Both episodes have amputated limbs from the white walkers spread out in a gory way to send a message.
    9. Scenes in the Winterfell crypt except instead of visiting Lyanna Stark they are seeing Ned Stark.
    10. S01E01 Cersi and Catelyn Stark talk about their kids possibly getting married while looking at them from a distance. S08E01 Varys, Tyrion, and Davos talk about Dany and Jon while looking at them from a distance.
    11. S08E01 The reunion of Jon and Arya at the Godswood (weirwood tree) is similar to S01E01 Ned and Catelyn at the Godswood.
    12. Incest between visiting monarchs and Bran watched both lewd acts. Bran controlled the staring scene from Drogon. Another interpretation is,
    13. Dragon and riders can have personality. Drogon’s emotional expression is essentially warning Jon that this is all smoke and mirrors (as Varys noted earlier, nothing lasts). The “real” Daenerys is not the flirty kissy-face girlfriend joking about eloping; Daenerys’s true nature, underneath the playfulness, is reflected in Drogon’s intensity and focus. That’s who she is, and Jon shouldn't forget that.
    14. S08E01 brothel scene with Bron is similar to S01E01 Tyrion’s scene and it is both interrupted with someone walking in.
    15. S01E01 Catelyn: "Where's Arya?" "Sansa, where's your sister?". Sansa: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ S08E01 Jon: "Where's Arya?" Sansa: "Lurking somewhere."
    16. S08E01 Sansa (Current Ruler of Winterfell) saying “Winterfell is yours, Your Grace.” to the arriving monarch (Daenerys Targaryen). S01E01 Ned (Former Ruler of Winterfell) “Guarding the North for you, Your Grace. Winterfell is yours.” to Robert Baratheon.
    17. S01E01 Robert Baratheon to Ned "I have a son, you have a daughter, we shall join our houses." S08E01 Arya (Stark) and Gendry (Baratheon).
    18. S08E01 Sansa being more than wary of Daenerys, similar to Catelyn in S01E01 was of Cersei. She is exactly like her mother (Catelyn) in the greeting.
    19. S01E01 Robert asking Ned to be his Hand of the King in the crypts is similar to Sam in S08E01 telling Jon he is the king in the crypts (Hinting Sam might become Jon's Hand of the King).
    20. Sam and Ned both share a few similarities; Sam is the smarter one in their duo, Sam and Ned's fathers/brothers were burned alive by Targaryens.
    21. Jon/Robert - great warriors, “brothers” to Sam/Ned, and both seeking for the iron throne but also both doing it for reasons beyond wanting the throne (protecting the realm / saving Lyanna and removing the mad king).
    22. S01E01 Ned’s farewell to Jon he says “the next time we see each other, we will talk about your mother. I promise.” In S08E01 Jon is staring at Ned's tomb while Sam tells him about his real parents (Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen).
    23. S01E01 Jon is distraught over his identity crisis as a bastard. In S08E01 Jon is distraught over his identity crisis as a king.
    24. In S01E01 Cerci tells Jamie to kill Bran. In S08E01 Cersei tells Bron to kill Jamie.
    25. In S01E01/S08E01 Arya is jumping into Jon's arms as he lifts her!
    26. S01E01 A child is “dead” and crucified to a tree. Child attacks brothers of the nights watch. A brother goes south (then executed by Ned Stark). In S08E01 a child is crucified to a wall. Eddison Tollett (Edd) witnesses, and he goes south to warn others. Side note: Opposite of what brother of the Night's Watch did from S01E01: safe to say he won’t be executed by Lord of Winterfell considering he was one of the reasons the current Lord of Winterfell is alive after himself being executed.
    27. S08E01 Daenerys "The North is as beautiful as your brother claimed, as are you." Similar to S01E01 when Cersei said "Hello, little dove." "But you are a beauty".
    28. S01E01 The last time Jon and Arya spoke, she was given her sword Needle and jumped up on Jon to hug his neck. S08E01 Arya jumps up to hug his neck, then shows Jon that she still has Needle.
    29. If Cersei taught Sansa anything, it's not to blindly trust a beautiful queen coming into Winterfell and promising to protect her and fulfill her wildest dreams.
    30. S01E01 The whole family standing in line for the king. S08E01 The remaining Starks and their advisers waiting for the queen and Jon.
    31. In S01E01 Jon Snow gets a pet Direwolf (Stark), in S08E01 Jon Snow gets a pet Dragon (Targaryen).
    32. S01E01 Surprising return of and the existence of dire wolves south of the wall shocking the northerners. In S08E01 The return of and existence of dragons also shocking the northerners.
    33. The arrival at Winterfell, the only person that rode in both caravans, was The Hound. In S01E01 the hound wore his trademark dog helm, but in S08E01 he wore nothing. It seems to symbolize his transition away from The Hound and to being himself, Sandor Clegane.
    34. In S01E01 Ned kills the deserter and tells Bran "the white walkers been gone for thousands of years." Bran in S08E01 says we don't have time; the white walkers are coming.
    35. S01E01 Robert and Ned are standing in front of Lyanna Stark's tomb. In S08E01 Sam and Jon are standing in front of Lyanna Stark’s tomb.
    36. S01E01 lady of Winterfell (Catelyn) reading a letter by candlelight. S08E01 The lady of Winterfell (Sansa) reading a letter by candlelight.
    37. In S08E01 When Sansa and Tyrion were discussing the wedding at Joffrey. Tyrion said "Last time we spoke was at Joffrey's wedding" "Miserable affair" Sansa said "It had its moments" recalling Joffrey's gruesome death and being satisfied by how it went down. Recalling "fondly" in this instance would be sarcasm. In S01E01, Sansa thinks of Joffrey fondly because she wants to be queen.

Foreshadowing (from different Seasons/Episodes.)

01. S03E05 “Let’s not go back. Let’s stay here a while longer,” Ygritte tells Jon. “I don’t ever want to leave this cave, Jon Snow.” S08E01 “We could stay a thousand years. No one would find us,” Daenerys says to Jon.
02. Sam is suggesting rebelling against the Targaryen because they burned his father and brother alive. Similar to when Robert's Rebellion, began when Rhaegar Targaryen, allegedly abducted Robert's betrothed, Lyanna Stark.

--Courtesy of Lord Snow @ trakt.tv
Bro, you have waaay too much time on your hands and apparently, so do I! big_smile

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Re: Season 8

Well that episode was disappointing.
Meh.

Brothers! What we do in life...Echoes in Eternity!


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4 (edited by rslbrg 2019-04-16 01:32:36)

Re: Season 8

scorpius074 wrote:
Spyder23 wrote:

Seriously, no one talking about this?

I suspect people are; just not here. Let me kick things off...


+ show spoiler
Bran wrote:

I'm waiting for an old friend

They need wheelchair ramps in Winterfell. They left Bran in the courtyard overnight! smile


Parallelism between Season 1 Episode 1 and Season 8 Episode 1
   

+ show spoiler

1. S01E01 Winter Is Coming. S08E01 Winterfell.
    2. Opening shot of the King and Queen arriving with the same soundtrack called "The King's Arrival."
    3. S01E01 Winterfell showed grass but S08E01 it’s covered in snow.
    4. The kid from the beginning was climbing on trees to get a good view, similar to Bran climbing the castle to get a good view. He was made to look similar to Bran in the Pilot.
    5. Arya being a kid watching the King coming, compare to her letting a kid get a good view of the Queen coming.
    6. S01E01 Jamie is arriving at Winterfell taking off his Golden Lannister Helmet and showing his blond hair, clean shave, and everyone staring at him. S08E01 Jamie arriving in Gray cloaks and taking a hood off to show darker hair and a beard and no one except Bran noticing him.
    7. Both episodes ending with Bran and Jamie, except this time Jamie looks terrified.
    8. Both episodes have amputated limbs from the white walkers spread out in a gory way to send a message.
    9. Scenes in the Winterfell crypt except instead of visiting Lyanna Stark they are seeing Ned Stark.
    10. S01E01 Cersi and Catelyn Stark talk about their kids possibly getting married while looking at them from a distance. S08E01 Varys, Tyrion, and Davos talk about Dany and Jon while looking at them from a distance.
    11. S08E01 The reunion of Jon and Arya at the Godswood (weirwood tree) is similar to S01E01 Ned and Catelyn at the Godswood.
    12. Incest between visiting monarchs and Bran watched both lewd acts. Bran controlled the staring scene from Drogon. Another interpretation is,
    13. Dragon and riders can have personality. Drogon’s emotional expression is essentially warning Jon that this is all smoke and mirrors (as Varys noted earlier, nothing lasts). The “real” Daenerys is not the flirty kissy-face girlfriend joking about eloping; Daenerys’s true nature, underneath the playfulness, is reflected in Drogon’s intensity and focus. That’s who she is, and Jon shouldn't forget that.
    14. S08E01d with someone walking in.
    15. S01E01 Catelyn: "Where's Arya?" "Sansa, where's your sister?". Sansa: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ S08E01 Jon: "Where's Arya?" Sansa: "Lurking somewhere."
    16. S08E01 Sansa (Current Ruler of Winterfell) saying “Winterfell is yours, Your Grace.” to the arriving monarch (Daenerys Targaryen). S01E01 Ned (Former Ruler of Winterfell) “Guarding the North for you, Your Grace. Winterfell is yours.” to Robert Baratheon.
    17. S01E01 Robert Baratheon to Ned "I have a son, you have a daughter, we shall join our houses." S08E01 Arya (Stark) and Gendry (Baratheon).
    18. S08E01 Sansa being more than wary of Daenerys, similar to Catelyn in S01E01 was of Cersei. She is exactly like her mother (Catelyn) in the greeting.
    19. S01E01 Robert asking Ned to be his Hand of the King in the crypts is similar to Sam in S08E01 telling Jon he is the king in the crypts (Hinting Sam might become Jon's Hand of the King).
    20. Sam and Ned both share a few similarities; Sam is the smarter one in their duo, Sam and Ned's fathers/brothers were burned alive by Targaryens.
    21. Jon/Robert - great warriors, “brothers” to Sam/Ned, and both seeking for the iron throne but also both doing it for reasons beyond wanting the throne (protecting the realm / saving Lyanna and removing the mad king).
    22. S01E01 Ned’s farewell to Jon he says “the next time we see each other, we will talk about your mother. I promise.” In S08E01 Jon is staring at Ned's tomb while Sam tells him about his real parents (Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen).
    23. S01E01 Jon is distraught over his identity crisis as a bastard. In S08E01 Jon is distraught over his identity crisis as a king.
    24. In S01E01 Cerci tells Jamie to kill Bran. In S08E01 Cersei tells Bron to kill Jamie.
    25. In S01E01/S08E01 Arya is jumping into Jon's arms as he lifts her!
    26. S01E01 A child is “dead” and crucified to a tree. Child attacks brothers of the nights watch. A brother goes south (then executed by Ned Stark). In S08E01 a child is crucified to a wall. Eddison Tollett (Edd) witnesses, and he goes south to warn others. Side note: Opposite of what brother of the Night's Watch did from S01E01: safe to say he won’t be executed by Lord of Winterfell considering he was one of the reasons the current Lord of Winterfell is alive after himself being executed.
    27. S08E01 Daenerys "The North is as beautiful as your brother claimed, as are you." Similar to S01E01 when Cersei said "Hello, little dove." "But you are a beauty".
    28. S01E01 The last time Jon and Arya spoke, she was given her sword Needle and jumped up on Jon to hug his neck. S08E01 Arya jumps up to hug his neck, then shows Jon that she still has Needle.
    29. If Cersei taught Sansa anything, it's not to blindly trust a beautiful queen coming into Winterfell and promising to protect her and fulfill her wildest dreams.
    30. S01E01 The whole family standing in line for the king. S08E01 The remaining Starks and their advisers waiting for the queen and Jon
    31. In S01E01 Jon Snow gets a pet Direwolf (Stark), in S08E01 Jon Snow gets a pet Dragon (Targaryen).
    32. S01E01 Surprising return of and the existence of dire wolves south of the wall shocking the northerners. In S08E01 The return of and existence of dragons also shocking the northerners.
    33. The arrival at Winterfell, the only person that rode in both caravans, was The Hound. In S01E01 the hound wore his trademark dog helm, but in S08E01 he wore nothing. It seems to symbolize his transition away from The Hound and to being himself, Sandor Clegane.
    34. In S01E01 Ned kills the deserter and tells Bran "the white walkers been gone for thousands of years." Bran in S08E01 says we don't have time; the white walkers are coming.
    35. S01E01 Robert and Ned are standing in front of Lyanna Stark's tomb. In S08E01 Sam and Jon are standing in front of Lyanna Stark’s tomb.
    36. S01E01 lady of Winterfell (Catelyn) reading a letter by candlelight. S08E01 The lady of Winterfell (Sansa) reading a letter by candlelight.
    37. In S08E01 When Sansa and Tyrion were discussing the wedding at Joffrey. Tyrion said "Last time we spoke was at Joffrey's wedding" "Miserable affair" Sansa said "It had its moments" recalling Joffrey's gruesome death and being satisfied by how it went down. Recalling "fondly" in this instance would be sarcasm. In S01E01, Sansa thinks of Joffrey fondly because she wants to be queen.

Foreshadowing (from different Seasons/Episodes.)

01. S03E05“ “Let’s not go back. Let’s stay here a while longer,” Ygritte tells Jon. “I don’t ever want to leave this cave, Jon Snow.” S08E01 “We could stay a thousand years. No one would find us,” Daenerys says to Jon.
02. Sam is suggesting rebelling against the Targaryen because they burned his father and brother alive. Similar to when Robert's Rebellion, began when Rhaegar Targaryen, allegedly abducted Robert's betrothed, Lyanna Stark.

--Courtesy of Lord Snow @ trakt.tv
Bro, you have waaay too much time on your hands and apparently, so do I! big_smile

Cool summary!

Re: Season 8

Thanks scorpius074, nice list!

This looks like there's something missing:
14. S08E01d with someone walking in.

Re: Season 8

I just fixed it. Thnx! smile

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Re: Season 8

https://imgur.com/xurzw5a.jpg

WTF?? yikes

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Re: Season 8

Sooo...episode 3.

https://i.postimg.cc/X7Rf8Q1h/game-of-thones-ep-3.png

Someone might need to explain what happened, for the night is dark and full of the last 3 levels of grayscale.

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Re: Season 8

I'm sure it was amazing but I could hardly make what the hell was going on.

10 (edited by HomerS 2019-04-30 16:07:56)

Re: Season 8

8x03
Epic battle but way to dark

and why

+ show spoiler

do you built up the Night King over 8 years, just so that he gets killed so easy without an epic fight and i still dont know anything about his/their backstory (unless i missed something) and why was Bran so important in the first place when he coudlnt do anything to help in the battle except spy with his raven "drones".
While this whole Jon/Dragon/Araya/Night King killing scene was great by itself it was still dissatisfying at the same time.

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Re: Season 8

Just needed to turn all the lights out and block the windows, was fine for me big_smile
WHAT a fucking episode.....

Re: Season 8

It was an amazing episode with a lot going on, but ...

+ show spoiler

there were a mass of mistakes and issues.

The battle formation, and use of the different sections (catapults, etc)

Where were the dragons for half the battle when they were needed the most.

DRM "manages access" in the same way that Prison "manages freedom".
http://xkcd.com/488/

13 (edited by lowrider 2019-05-02 08:08:27)

Re: Season 8

I liked the episode mostly, but...

+ show spoiler

The tactics were indeed terrible, what a waste of Dothraki and their huge horse power. Charging frontally at a mass of undead... Not that any tactics would've saved them, but still!

Wizard wrote:

Where were the dragons for half the battle when they were needed the most.

That was what the fog/blizzard was for, right?

Khaleesi standing still with her dragon surrounded by undead was also roll

I loved Arya's move, but indeed it was a bit of an anticlimax to see it end that "easily".

And also, I know and get that in the fantasy genre the heroes always survive, but you kind've hope that in GoT it's different.

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14 (edited by scorpius074 2019-05-09 08:40:07)

Re: Season 8

Are we on course for the mother of all twists? big_smile

Major spoilers ahead, so if you're not up to speed, click at your own peril...

Game of Thrones creators hint we haven't seen the last of this major threat

However, there is a compilation of leaked spoilers out there that contradict this, so take with a grain of salt. The collection of leaked spoilers for Episode 4 on Reddit was 100% accurate, in hindsight AFAIC. Episodes 1-3, not so much. Regardless of what's to come, one thing is for sure, and that's, I'm already 99.98% disappointed at the direction this season has gone; the writing has been atrocious, shock value seems to be more important than quality storytelling and happens to be in the driver's seat moving forward, years (and I mean YEARS) of character development flushed right down the crapper, some of these creative decisions are insanely mind-boggling, and they had well over a year to put this season together, yet, somehow, a Starbucks coffee cup manages to find its way into a final scene (which is indicative of the efforts we've seen by the showrunners so far this season *smh*). If I were just a casual viewer, then, on entertainment value alone, I would give this a hefty 9/10, but I can't thus far. I know there are still two more episodes remaining, but at this point, I'm not feeling overly optimistic about witnessing a strong and satisfying finish. It'd be nice to see the writers prove to me otherwise, but um—spoiler alert—I highly doubt it. Looking back on how everything transpired maybe one day I'll finally blame AT&T for ruining everything.

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Re: Season 8

Game Of Thrones Ep. 4 Recap & Review (Season 8): Self-Sabotage At Its Finest

+ show spoiler

Only two episodes remain until Game of Thrones Season 8--and the show as a whole--concludes. HBO has released the Episode 5 preview trailer to provide some idea of what to expect, as it seems the next, last big battle will take place between the Targaryen and Lannister forces. Based on how Episode 4 plays out, it's looking increasingly likely that we will finally get Cleganebowl, where the Clegane brothers, the Hound and Mountain, square off once again.

If you're all caught up, be sure to check out all the Easter Eggs hidden in this episode, why Missandei says "dracarys" and our rundown on the discussion around the possibility of more dragons being in Westeros, as well as HBO's behind-the-scenes feature on Episode 4. And yes, that was a coffee cup in the episode. Finally, if you're looking for the easiest way to watch the last two episodes of Game of Thrones, our sister site CNET has you covered.

Game of Thrones Season 8, Episode 4, titled "The Last of the Starks," in a way had it easy: It couldn't have possibly been worse than the nonsensical Episode 3, "The Long Night," which many fans feel betrayed the very core of what Game of Thrones is. With the bar set so low, Episode 4 was always going to seem better in comparison. And sure enough, it wasn't the worst episode so far in Season 8.

But there's just something off about the way Game of Thrones' final conflict--the one between Cersei, Dany, and Jon/Aegon--is taking shape. Jon's explanation that he has no desire to make a claim to the Iron Throne (which apparently took place offscreen at some point) isn't good enough for the Dragon Queen, and what do you know? This episode proved Dany's worst fears right: Now that Jon's secret is out, there's already talk of how much better he'd be at ruling.

But why? Is that conversation justified? Jon has proved time and time again that he has what it takes, but so has Daenerys. They're in the endgame, and now is no time to be sowing inner conflict on your own side. Characters like Sansa and Varys should be smarter than this (although they weren't smart enough to remember that crypts are full of corpses, so who knows?).

The easiest resolution to this whole conflict would be for Jon and Dany to get married, announce his identity to the whole Seven Kingdoms, and be stronger than ever, together, a united front of Targaryens here to take their rightful seat back. Obviously, it's Game of Thrones, so it can't be that easy, but the show hasn't presented an adequate reason why not. Because Sansa and Arya still don't trust the queen who sacrificed half her forces to defend their home? Because Varys worries that Dany would wear the pants in the relationship? All this scheming and plotting and self-sabotaging feels contrived, because in this case, there's one clear path that makes the most sense, and no one's managed to come up with any adequate justification for why they can't just do this one thing the easy way.

The blame for that falls squarely on this episode's writers, showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss, who also wrote the previous episode (and the next two, which isn't a great sign for the rest of the final season). It's clear what they're trying to do, and it's clear that they failed at it--because I just can't figure out why Jon and Dany wouldn't just make the smart choice, unite the North and South, and usher in a new age of Targaryen rule.

Elsewhere in Winterfell, "The Last of the Starks" was full of fan service--although much of it was misplaced. Ghost showed up for the third time this season, only to immediately be written off the show, without so much as a pat from Jon. The suits at HBO breathed a sigh of relief for the show's CG budget, while fans cried out at the injustice of Ghost being treated like he's just as unimportant as Daario F***ing Naharis. Ghost's casual dismissal was almost as bad as the episode cutting away from Jon telling his sisters his true identity--a conversation fans have been awaiting for decades. Considering how much fan service this season has featured, it's frankly shocking that we didn't get to see the rest of that chat.

Jaime and Brienne got together--but only, it turns out, to make it more of a gut punch to her when he went riding back to Cersei anyway. Jaime knighted Brienne in Episode 2, and it was a beautiful culmination of both characters' arcs, fulfilling their relationship without needing to shoehorn in a romance. This final twist of the knife was, arguably, unnecessary. The fact that Jaime is most likely riding south to kill his sister himself is the plotline's saving grace--and leaving his intentions ambiguous does a decent job of keeping that tension going.

And another dragon died. Once again, Game of Thrones put cinematic showiness over plausibility, as it's hard to believe that Dany somehow failed to glimpse Euron's fleet hiding behind a rock from her vantage point hundreds of feet in the air. The camera was pointed up toward the sky when the fleet apparently came into view of the dragons, which leaves it just vague enough to be somewhat believable. But even if you buy that, it's insane that no one saw that attack coming in a figurative sense; they know about Euron's fleet, they know about Cersei's scorpions (Drogon caught a bolt back in Season 7's "The Spoils of War"), and they know that King's Landing and Dragonstone are a stone's throw from one another. Why wouldn't Euron be waiting to ambush them?

Losing yet another dragon is a massive blow to Dany, and it hurts even more because it could have easily been avoided. Maybe that's another case of the writing being bad, or maybe all the greatest minds in Westeros really are just that dumb. Who can say at this point?

With two episodes of Game of Thrones left, it feels safe to say that the show probably doesn't have many big surprises left. Some fans are disappointed the White Walkers were easily defeated in a single skirmish, while others may still hope that Jon and Dany will make peace with each other and figure out that a united Targaryen front is the strongest, easiest, and smartest way forward. Whatever you think, there's no denying that this season has been surprising so far, and despite all our gripes, there's something deeply enjoyable about that.

I believe that with the end in sight, what we're seeing is what we're getting: Jon and Dany and Cersei will vie for the Iron Throne, and whichever of them is left standing at the end will get it. It's going to be exciting, there will be plenty of fire and blood, and at this point nobody can predict what will happen next. I have plenty of complaints with the path we've taken to get here, but when it comes down to it, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all ends. Once it does, maybe George R.R. Martin can finally write the rest of the books and finish things his way. Until then, let's just try to enjoy this for what it is.

By Michael Rougeau | @RogueCheddarGameSpot

^^My thoughts exactly! wink

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Re: Season 8

> [A probable solution]
> Obviously, it's Game of Thrones, so it can't be that easy

That applies to roughly 99% of all shows and movies... big_smile

(And in those 99%, some make suspension of disbelief harder than others)

17 (edited by scorpius074 2019-05-11 02:33:06)

Re: Season 8

+ show spoiler

Game of Thrones season 8 has seen Daenerys Targaryen lose so much, but following a clue in the GoT opening credits, a theory has arisen suggesting she could be blessed with even more dragons.

Source
Alternative Source

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Updated (5/10/2019)

Even Game of Thrones Actors Admit Season 8 Is A Disaster

Ouch!! yikes

I got nothing but respect for Kit and Emilia; much love! I mean, we still have two more episodes to go, but this right here is tough to dispute. GRRM probably anticipated this and will make a killing once he finally releases The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring, and they end up selling like hotcakes!!

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18 (edited by HomerS 2019-05-15 09:02:28)

Re: Season 8

Atleast some people did a great job on season 8, just not the writers.
But to be fair, it is very tough if you dont have the books as source, only the main plot points and have to decide for yourself how to get there. (But there were much better fan theories out there) Also budget restraints, so it will be interesting to see how the books will be different.

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Re: Season 8

HomerS wrote:

Atleast some people did a great job on season 8, just not the writers.
But to be fair, it is very tough if you dont have the books as source, only the main plot points and have to decide for yourself how to get there...

They are just packing too much into the final season.

I don't get the imperative to wrap it all (the battle against the white walkers, the battle for the Iron throne, the personal stories of the survivors of all the great houses) up in 6 episodes. They spent 8 years and nearly 60 hours setting up these stories, now they are tying up all the narratives in a little over 8 hours.

Wasted opportunity.

Re: Season 8

CarmarthenLad wrote:

I don't get the imperative to wrap it all (the battle against the white walkers, the battle for the Iron throne, the personal stories of the survivors of all the great houses) up in 6 episodes. They spent 8 years and nearly 60 hours setting up these stories, now they are tying up all the narratives in a little over 8 hours.

Wasted opportunity.

Yes! The only logical reason for doing so I could come up with is that the added revenue from producing another season did not justify the added expanse, given that the producers and all major actors (in a popular production like this) probably earn more and more per season.

Re: Season 8

Well this hapens when you do a tv show based on book series that`s not complete and you decide its best you just make the rest up as you go along.

Re: Season 8

CarmarthenLad wrote:

I don't get the imperative to wrap it all (the battle against the white walkers, the battle for the Iron throne, the personal stories of the survivors of all the great houses) up in 6 episodes..

They're tired of the show and want to do the Star Wars films.

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Re: Season 8

Orlando wrote:
CarmarthenLad wrote:

I don't get the imperative to wrap it all (the battle against the white walkers, the battle for the Iron throne, the personal stories of the survivors of all the great houses) up in 6 episodes..

They're tired of the show and want to do the Star Wars films.

Yeah, that's definitely what it is, D&D ain't fooling anybody! tongue

However, several sources also indicate that HBO execs approached the showrunners with a 10-episode order for season 8, but they turned it down. Actually, to throw more salt into that wound, they were offered as much time as they wanted to get it all done properly, by HBO. They could have made three more seasons if they wanted to. The show would've had plenty of headroom to explore the multiple complex interweaving storylines that were rushed, or swept aside, the past two seasons. Every season before seven, and at its best in Season 1-4, where GoT stood among the giants of television, GoT had intricate storylines across Westeros, beyond the Wall, and across the Narrow sea—all happening simultaneously. You have many storylines, many motivations, many characters, and many crucial plot-moving scenes. And they end up weaving and meshing together beautifully for amazing payouts. Unfortunately, being at the end of the show, it's a byproduct that we don't have a plethora of plot lines.

Enter D&D, and their compressed take on the finale throughout this season. It's a tragic case of two hack writers taking parts of GRRM's outline, assigning them to other characters, and ultimately following in the footsteps of so many Hollywood types by trying to fit the story around the big cinematic moments. GRRM realized he made a mistake entrusting that D&D were capable of moving forward with his loose storyline framework. So instead of cutting ties from the project, he distanced himself, remained relatively quiet, and let them creatively hang themselves. It was announced back in 2016 that seasons seven and eight would be shorter than ever before. GRRM last wrote an episode in season 4—about the same time D&D was approached by Disney to write for Star Wars—and he wanted ten seasons, and they ended up cutting it to seven at the time. The best GRRM could do was convince them to at least try to wrap up the damn series before they dove head first into their money pit (aka Star Wars).

This is the main reason why he has little if anything to do with the show in the last four seasons, and he even turned D&D down when they asked him to appear in the finale. Is GRRM sabotaging the show by feeding these hacks a bunch of horseshit? Nah, I don't think so; instead, I believe he is letting them tie their own noose by not giving them any more source material. If you want to be "the man," then you need to stop relying on your human cheat sheet.

What's sad is that GoT has become a poorly written franchise that requires Monday morning quarterbacking from its hack writers to provide additional context and insight due to horrendous storytelling, outside the scope of a framework already handed to them by GRRM. What's even sadder is that in the long run, the majority of casual fans (and not-so-casual) will probably end up judging the entire franchise based on this season alone. Excellent work HBO/D&D, give yourselves a big round of applause.


HomerS wrote:

Atleast some people did a great job on season 8, just not the writers.

Man, I couldn't agree more! The acting has been top-notch all season long. It's been roughly four days since 8x05 "The Bells" and I have no idea how to rate it. It was a technical masterpiece, IMO; captivating cinematography, excellent production, beautiful scenery, and masterful directing with Ramin Djawadi's ominous score to cap it all off.

+ show spoiler

The imagery of Dany wreaking her terrible vengeance on King's Landing left me awe-struck. Yeah, I read the spoilers, but to actually witness it with my own eyes was breathtaking. "The Bells" doesn't just give us all the amazing CGI wizardry of flaming death reigning from above and masses of bodies hacking one another to bits on the ground. It firmly and fully conveys the abject terror that being in that situation would create, anchoring the Saving Private Ryan-esque horror in the reaction of Jon, the efforts to escape by Arya, the mother and child who are the audience inserts and vehicles our sympathies as innocents caught in this maelstrom. There is such an atmosphere, such arresting visuals, and such a sad, frightening mood that Game of Thrones evokes here. You could show this episode to someone who'd never seen the show before and, while it would spoil a hell of a lot, I still think they would understand and appreciate the gruesome peak of the show's "war is hell" mentality potently and viscerally.

However, all that comes crumbling down because the writers have no semblance of time, pacing, or logic. Way too much happens off-screen. "We have captured Missandei," "We have captured Jaime," "Dorne has a new king now, and he supports Daenerys." We spend a half an episode on a drunk Tormund in episode 4, a scene that could've been shortened in favor of Missandei being captured. I have no problem with the Night King being defeated mid-season, but the pacing makes it feel like he was in this season only to wrap up a storyline that was built up throughout the last two seasons. And his defeat led many to believe that Cersei was going to be the "big bad villain" that needed to be dealt with. Of course, we find out that she didn't have a fucking clue on what to do, other than stare out from the balcony in disbelief. Key character arcs were rushed beyond belief, and a few character arcs were even disintegrated into ash (even with all the foreshadowing, lore, and visions from previous seasons) that when you step away from the sheer spectacle and emotion of what you've just seen, it's hard not to be frustrated.

I don't have a problem with Dany becoming the Mad Queen either; I do, however, have a problem with all the events that were put in place this season as justification for her madness. The whole sequence of her losing Rhaegal and Missandei was just nonsensical; like D&D needed these events to happen but couldn't come up with an organic way to do it. I also never fully bought into her romance with Jon either. It just felt like the characters fell in love because that's what was supposed to happen, not based on any actual chemistry between the characters. If the show wanted me to believe that Dany felt so strongly about their bond, and that being rejected would put her on this path, they needed to sell me on their romance way more than they did.

Dany was never born to rule; she was always meant to be a conqueror first and foremost, who has always shown compassion for those who follow her unyieldingly. She wanted revenge for what happened to her family in Westeros, but she always had a moral compass. The irony here is that she kills the tyrannical masters, but still wants to rule the people who follow her unconditionally; essentially replacing one tyrant with another. It's been hinted at throughout her very long character arc that she's a tyrant hidden behind a hero's narrative, and it's one of the reasons why she is one of the most fascinating, interestingly complex characters from the entire series IMO. She's been building up an act of unquenchable revenge for a long time (tv show and books), tempered only by those close by her side. Dany going Mad Queen made sense on paper, but I didn't buy it at all while I was watching it. Her transformation felt forced, contrived, and illogical. I would love nothing more than to read GRRM's take on this. I'm pretty sure GRRM would've gone a similar route, but it would've been handled much differently and fleshed out over the course of two books. If done right, overall, it would potentially provide excellent symmetry to a show whose events was set in motion by the death of the Mad King, only to be wrapped up by the ascension and end of a Mad Queen.

When I first read the Red Wedding, it was shocking and over the top, but when I took a step back and looked at what led up to it, I felt like it couldn't have gone any other way. It was a culmination of a lot of narrative threads that organically concluded. The build-up to Dany's madness in these last few episodes, on the other hand, feels very inorganic, like the writers knew where they needed it to end up but couldn't find a great way to get there. It's a classic case of showing rather than telling, which has been the main issue with the show for the last few seasons. Even more reasons as to why the shortened seasons, compared to the usual 10-ep order, was a mistake. They were in such a rush to get through the plot that the character moments were lost. Dany basically had an Anakin heel turn. All the significant factors that led to her steep decline into madness were there, but at that moment, it wasn't believable at all. No way she goes that far off the deep end and winds up systematically (in zig-zag formation) air-barbecuing innocent women and children (as well as her own soldiers) for a good 20 mins (20:41 to be exact) before hitting The Red Keep. That was WAY too extreme and entirely out of character even for her. Why not just go for The Red Keep and burn it to the ground? I'll tell you why; because that wouldn't have provided the setup for episode six. The events that occurred in 8x04 (Rhaegal dying for instance) could have been combined and better utilized in 8x05 to help sell Dany's descent into madness once the battle was won, well after the bells have rung.

There's absolutely no justification for blindly killing innocent people (after they surrender), but if that's the route you're going take with a character that has been depicted as merciful, kind, and above all shrewd, for the better part of her character arc, then you better do a masterful job showing me and others the reason behind the madness, and the events that led up to it. Don't expect us to put the pieces together based on GRRM's work, and give you all the credit for showing us absolutely nothing. Ultimately, the take I got from 8x05, and the entire season for that matter, is that the biggest threat to humanity was never the Night King, Cersei, The Mad Queen, or Drogon baking the city; it was always humanity itself. Based on the events that occurred in 8x05, it seems pretty apparent what the fallout is going to be like in the next episode. Spoilers or not, it shouldn't be rocket science, and even though they shot multiple endings, Dany's ultimate fate seems to have been signed, sealed and delivered long ago.


GRRM had previously said he would have liked the show to run across more seasons, to give all his elaborate storylines room. Instead, the HBO team entirely removed some characters or reassigned storylines. Ouch! He also said: "The series has been... not completely faithful. Otherwise, it would have to run another five seasons." This includes the source material that's already available btw. Overall, I'm disappointed with how this season of GoT has gone, and apparently GRRM feels the same. Even with all the knowledge I have in my possession regarding the episode six spoilers from Freefolk, I will watch the finale nonetheless. I mean, I rode this far on the GoT Express, and I'm already utterly disappointed, so I might as well see this train wreck all the way through to the finish line.


BTW, for those that aren't aware, I would check out In Deep Geek - Your home for intelligent insight and debate on Game of Thrones, Westworld and more. He is by far the most unbiased GoT reviewer you will find on YouTube. I love the guy because he simply lays out the facts without injecting his own opinions so that you can come to your own conclusions. Not to mention the guy has one of the best voices out there (think Hodor wink), and they call him In Deep Geek, not for the duration of his reviews, but the knowledge within. I highly suggest people check him out. He's the only person who manages to calm me down after watching some of these GoT episodes this season.

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