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Topic: The 13th Doctor...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-_bSdWEYK8

DRM "manages access" in the same way that Prison "manages freedom".
http://xkcd.com/488/

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

No.  Just no.

2020.  Meh.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

Yeah, finally some good news!

I really hope that the show will return to being any good, now that Moffat isn't playing the first violin anymore.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

graybags wrote:

No.  Just no.

Agreed. Done. Scratching this off my watch list.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

Wouldn't have been my first choice, but the show needs a new direction, so will give it a go.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

yaaay finally

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

I thought Missy was a superb Master

Let's hope the new Doctor is as good

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

Loved her in Broadchurch, will probably love her as the Doctor.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

I never liked Jodie as the Doctor. I did not recognise the doctor in her.
Seems she will get her third season soon.
The previous 3 doctors each had three seasons.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

Identity politics has destroyed yet another great legacy franchise.

Get woke, go broke ....

11 (edited by Lollie 2020-12-10 05:36:23)

Re: The 13th Doctor...

proteinnerd wrote:

Identity politics has destroyed yet another great legacy franchise.

Get woke, go broke ....

That's not the reason exactly for failure - a female playing The Master aka Michelle Gomez does awesomely, so it isn't "just because it's a woman".

Issue is more the female Doctor is just a bit cringey. It's her, not her entire gender.

Unless issue is more you can't tell the difference between all women and they're all the same to you tongue

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12 (edited by HomerS 2020-12-10 11:43:19)

Re: The 13th Doctor...

If someone is a better actor/actress, has more charisma or just better suits the role, i'm all for replacing doesnt matter which gender, race, age ect. you are but to force replace a role just because it's woke or a certain numbers rate has to be fullfilled, i'm not a fan of like with the 2016 ghostbusters reboot.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

I stopped watching Dr Who a few shows after she started.  It wasn't her, it was the terrible writing.  Every single doctor since the start has had 1 assistant.  Just 1.  This new rubbish had a whole team of them.  It completely changed the dynamic.

DRM "manages access" in the same way that Prison "manages freedom".
http://xkcd.com/488/

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

Wizard wrote:

I stopped watching Dr Who a few shows after she started.  It wasn't her, it was the terrible writing.  Every single doctor since the start has had 1 assistant.  Just 1.  This new rubbish had a whole team of them.  It completely changed the dynamic.


Yep, it's not the actor. Writing has been subpar after Moffat left.

PS. the first Doctor had multiple companions at the same time.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

proteinnerd wrote:

Identity politics has destroyed yet another great legacy franchise.

Did you consider the possibility that, maybe, it actually hasn't really ruined any of them? Perhaps you are just missing out on enjoying many otherwise perfectly fine shows because you have an irrationally strong emotional reaction to a thing that doesn't even really affect you?


Wizard wrote:

It wasn't her, it was the terrible writing.

Her first run was definitely bad, but I think the second one was (except for one episode) actually fairly good by Doctor Who standards. I've heard several people share that opinion. Speaking about only s12, how do you feel about it?


Wizard wrote:

Every single doctor since the start has had 1 assistant.  Just 1.  This new rubbish had a whole team of them.

This is... entirely not true. Hell, even Capaldi had two in the end.

Personally, I enjoy them mixing it up every once in a while. The dynamic with the two mentioned above made it a lot more entertaining IMO and the current cast, although larger than usual, has its moments too.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

some_one wrote:
proteinnerd wrote:

Identity politics has destroyed yet another great legacy franchise.

Did you consider the possibility that, maybe, it actually hasn't really ruined any of them? Perhaps you are just missing out on enjoying many otherwise perfectly fine shows because you have an irrationally strong emotional reaction to a thing that doesn't even really affect you?

Have you seen the ratings/audience reviews of the franchises that have been infected with Identify Politics over good story telling?

Dr Who lost 22% of viewers through the last season...over a million people stopped watching.
Star Wars episode 9 made half the money of episode 7 did.
Batwoman lost the main actress the ratings tanked so badly
Star Trek discovery has a rotten tomatoes audience score of 36%

I'm pretty confident the general consensus is that ideology has ruined all of the above, none of them are "perfectly fine" compared to the state they were in years ago before this crap took over.

It does affect me and all the legacy fans by destroying a previously enjoyed franchise.

I've got no problem if people want to make shows that push whatever agenda takes your fancy but create new franchise to do this and let them stand on their own, don't infect existing shows and fundamentally change them, trying to piggyback off an existing fanbase.

You name a franchise that pushes a woke agenda over story (most to of them now) and there is a undeniable trend of audiences walking away.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

proteinnerd wrote:

You name a franchise that pushes a woke agenda over story (most to of them now) and there is a undeniable trend of audiences walking away.


Yep another example of recent shows was Altered Carbon, season 1 yay, season 2 nay.

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18 (edited by davejo90 2020-12-13 15:02:41)

Re: The 13th Doctor...

I was disappointed that in the first series and some of the second the writers decided we needed history lessons. I don't watch it for history or any other school lesson, I watch it for the escapism from the real world.

I watched some but not all of the last series, I will watch the Christmas special as it's got Daleks and I'll give the new series a shot when it starts.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

proteinnerd wrote:

Have you seen the ratings/audience reviews of the franchises that have been infected with Identify Politics over good story telling?

Dr Who lost 22% of viewers through the last season...over a million people stopped watching.
Star Wars episode 9 made half the money of episode 7 did.
Batwoman lost the main actress the ratings tanked so badly
Star Trek discovery has a rotten tomatoes audience score of 36%

I'm pretty confident the general consensus is that ideology has ruined all of the above, none of them are "perfectly fine" compared to the state they were in years ago before this crap took over.

It does affect me and all the legacy fans by destroying a previously enjoyed franchise.

I've got no problem if people want to make shows that push whatever agenda takes your fancy but create new franchise to do this and let them stand on their own, don't infect existing shows and fundamentally change them, trying to piggyback off an existing fanbase.

You name a franchise that pushes a woke agenda over story (most to of them now) and there is a undeniable trend of audiences walking away.

You are being irrational. Argumentum ad populum.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

MeDumbDuck wrote:

Argumentum ad populum.

While that's giving it a name, that's not neccessarily helpful either.

Still, the point remains. Yes, a lot of people think the way you do. I am accusing you of letting emotional reactions to one particular thing cloud your judgement. I am also accusing many of those people of the same.

If a lot of people share an opinion, then either there is something to it, or it's simply an easy mistake to make. The fact that there were already a lot of complaints about her long before they even aired her first episode suggests, to me, that a decent percentage of people probably went in with a negative bias, which suggests the latter.

22%, 36% or even 60% are not general consensus. They are a common opinion. A lot of people still disagree.


proteinnerd wrote:

Star Trek discovery has a rotten tomatoes audience score of 36%

I'm pretty confident the general consensus is that ideology has ruined all of the above, none of them are "perfectly fine" compared to the state they were in years ago before this crap took over.

Star Trek Discovery has been trying to be a space opera/action type series as we would expect it from a Star Wars property. That is driving a lot of the people who were looking for genuine Star Trek Sci-Fi away.

If you believe that taking a political stance is what is ruining Star Trek here, then maybe you haven't fully understood that Star Trek was about that from the outset? Do you think all the thinly veiled references to racism and war (and them being a thing of the past) in TOS were there because that's how people generally thought about them back then?

Do consider the possibility that maybe you are merely getting old and settled, becoming the very kind of person Star Trek always opposed. It happens to most of us eventually.


HomerS wrote:

Yep another example of recent shows was Altered Carbon, season 1 yay, season 2 nay.

As somebody who really doesn't mind it, let me assure you: No. Season 2 simply failed to have an interesting story to begin with. The show was based on a book series, so some blame might even go there, but it was not any kind of political agenda that ruined it. It didn't need any.


davejo90 wrote:

I was disappointed that in the first series and some of the second the writers decided we needed history lessons. I don't watch it for history or any other school lesson, I watch it for the escapism from the real world.

Have we been watching the same show though? A good number of episodes in this time travel show center on the past.

That being said: Again, s11 was rather bad. The only really bad episode in s12 was, IMO, Orphan 55 for a number of reasons. If you completely ignore that one, where does it leave the rest of s12 for you?


Lollie wrote:

I'm still not certain what the issue is, but somehow the whole thing didn't gel. They could easily have failed a male doctor the same way.

They (intentionally) went with "the awkward one" this time. Maybe that wasn't the best idea. Still, I do think it's usually fine.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

Joanna Lumley played the Doctor for a few mins in the non-Canon charity episode The Curse of Fatal Death - she was superb!

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

MeDumbDuck wrote:

You are being irrational. Argumentum ad populum.

Irrational, I disagree. Emotional perhaps, but not irrational.

Using an Ad Populum argument? Well that's only true if I haven't provided relevant evidence, which I did.

Reviews, box office dollars, ratings statistics...if you have a better way to determine if adding politics has been beneficial or detrimental to the pre-exisitng viewers opinions of the show, let me know and we can discuss it further.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

proteinnerd wrote:

Reviews, box office dollars, ratings statistics...if you have a better way to determine if adding politics has been beneficial or detrimental to the pre-exisitng viewers opinions of the show, let me know and we can discuss it further.

Honestly? Wait a decade or two and let future generations, who will hopefully have managed to sort this stuff out, be the judge of it. Popularity is not the type of quality we are trying to discuss here.

It is not a metric for it either.  We established earlier that a lot of people are pissed off and that skews each and any rating. The question is whether or not these viewers are focusing too much on a single thing or whether the quality actually declines.

You can try to present some actual data on that; otherwise we are down to opinion and (ideally) civilized discussion - which might just be the way pop culture is supposed to work.

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

Jodie Whittaker: speculation rife after reports she is to quit Doctor Who

Speculation is mounting over the future of Jodie Whittaker after reports she will depart Doctor Who at the end of the upcoming series, putting an end to her tenure in the Tardis after three years.

On Sunday, the Daily Mirror reported that Whittaker intended to leave the BBC show, which returns this autumn, with an anonymous source saying a new Doctor would emerge when the next “regeneration” happens.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi … doctor-who

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Re: The 13th Doctor...

According to news reports the ratings have dropped quite a lot since she took over

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