Topic: Brexit

I thought it was distasteful not to have a thread about it smile

So, if it ever happens (passes the parliament, and the separation becomes fact) - how do you think it'll affect you?

Leaving global financial consequences for the EU and UK aside, I'm mostly fearful that purchases (outside of UK) from amazon.co.uk will get a lot harder and more expensive.

What's your take on the Brexit?

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=5ba0ff0eba240dd51b6bf07fff0abb0e

Re: Brexit

It's all people were talking about at work.  Everyone has to wait and see what happens next, or at least in two years time.

Until then it's all speculation.

That's the second biggest X I've ever seen.

Re: Brexit

Having lived in London for 6 years this kinda disappoints me that they opted out. I loved my time there, it was amazing and the people were mostly fantastic but there was a pretty strong undercurrent of not liking foreigners (which I managed to mostly avoid being an Aussie).

It reaks of xenophobia and the older generation brits wanting to get back the "glory days of the empire" which they do still go on about, god love em.

Isolationism has never been a good thing but its decided now, I just hope it wasn't a mistake.

Re: Brexit

What is happening throughout Europe is that the politicians are letting all the refugees in and puts them in areas politicians do not live and then ignore the resulting increases (quite steep) in crime. There are economic grievances as well and all this can be problematic in a democracy, especially when the majority feels threatened and the people in charge do not.

Re: Brexit

proteinnerd wrote:

Having lived in London for 6 years this kinda disappoints me that they opted out. I loved my time there, it was amazing and the people were mostly fantastic but there was a pretty strong undercurrent of not liking foreigners (which I managed to mostly avoid being an Aussie).

It reaks of xenophobia and the older generation brits wanting to get back the "glory days of the empire" which they do still go on about, god love em.

Isolationism has never been a good thing but its decided now, I just hope it wasn't a mistake.

I personally think that London is one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world.  There are so many different races, creeds, colours, cultures, religions and everything else in between.  I certainly don't consider myself xenophobic.  Of course there are racist people here, but trust me, I know far worse places where racism is blatant and people are very open about how they feel.

The sad thing is, I think that if the government had convinced us that they were going to look at the immigration problems we have, Brexit would not have even been on the table.  When you see the town you grew up in grow steadily worse and worse, it's easy to point the finger at "outsiders" that have caused it.  Anyone with any sense knows it goes far deeper than that.

I think the people have finally had the balls to stand up and made their voices be heard.  It's massive, and who knows what will happen now.

That's the second biggest X I've ever seen.

Re: Brexit

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClvpdGzVYAE2qeE.jpg:large

http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/OrlandoNEP.png

7 (edited by CarmarthenLad 2016-06-25 13:30:14)

Re: Brexit

Suasor wrote:

What is happening throughout Europe is that the politicians are letting all the refugees in and puts them in areas politicians do not live and then ignore the resulting increases (quite steep) in crime. There are economic grievances as well and all this can be problematic in a democracy, especially when the majority feels threatened and the people in charge do not.

I can't speak for other countries, but detailed analysis of local crime rates and local EU citizen immigration rates in the UK  shows the opposite. Property crime falls where the European immigration rates are highest (violent crime rates are unchanged). Rising levels of asylum seekers from outside of Europe Union are associated with a small increase in the  levels of property crime (under 1.5%) but this correlation could well be the result of asylum seekers being banned from working until they are granted asylum and given citizenship, leaving them  to exist on frankly inadequate benefits.

Re: Brexit

CarmarthenLad wrote:
Suasor wrote:

What is happening throughout Europe is that the politicians are letting all the refugees in and puts them in areas politicians do not live and then ignore the resulting increases (quite steep) in crime. There are economic grievances as well and all this can be problematic in a democracy, especially when the majority feels threatened and the people in charge do not.

I can't speak for other countries, but detailed analysis of local crime rates and local EU citizen immigration rates in the UK  shows the opposite. Property crime falls where the European immigration rates are highest (violent crime rates are unchanged). Rising levels of asylum seekers from outside of Europe Union are associated with a small increase in the  levels of property crime (under 1.5%) but this correlation could well be the result of asylum seekers being banned from working until they are granted asylum and given citizenship, leaving them  to exist on frankly inadequate benefits.

Please link to your source.

Meanwhile in Germany 200.000 crimes committed by 1.1 million migrants(not all) during the course of a single year, there is no reason to believe that it is looking any different for the UK: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/650 … ime-report

9 (edited by Kanga 2016-06-25 22:19:20)

Re: Brexit

proteinnerd wrote:

It reaks of xenophobia and the older generation brits wanting to get back the "glory days of the empire" which they do still go on about, god love em.

To be honest the smell is more akin to "Thank god we got a chance to get out of the mess that is the EU".

For the UK, the EU is a trade union, Junckers wants a superstate and an army to use his own words and he wants to do it in a way where it is obfuscated to the various populations. This may be good from your point of view but from the point of view of especially older UK citizens it's basically a new form of fascism in terms of being limiting to freedom etc.

I want to stress that the UKs position is in direct opposition to what especially Germany/France(represented by Junckers) wants to get out of the EU and the UK have been paying the price for that by having next to no influence in the EU the last few years.

proteinnerd wrote:

Having lived in London for 6 years this kinda disappoints me that they opted out. I loved my time there, it was amazing and the people were mostly fantastic but there was a pretty strong undercurrent of not liking foreigners (which I managed to mostly avoid being an Aussie).

<...>

Isolationism has never been a good thing but its decided now, I just hope it wasn't a mistake.

*NOT* wanting to be a part of an European super state.. is not isolationism nor is it xenophobic, racist, <insert more buzzwords>. It's anti-bureaucratic, anti-imperialistic and simply practical. It's no different then Australias bonds being broken with Great Britain, do you consider yourself xenophobic? Do you still reek of xenophobia? Can you feel the undercurrent of hate towards the British? HAVE YOU STOPPED BEATING YOUR WIFE YET? smile

Re: Brexit

The US and UK have many things in common, one of them being that both are full of people whose ancestors fled continental Europe to get away from certain aspects of the predominant cultures there. The "continentals" never seem to understand the impact of that on popular attitudes in the UK and US.

Re: Brexit

At least Nigel Farage, Katie Hopkins, Boris Johnston & The Sun newspaper got their way.
They always are looking out for the common people, never themselves.

glhf

Re: Brexit

And just wtf has happened to my login name, See if we had stayed in the EU, I'd still have my name, this is BS! tongue

Re: Brexit

deke, PM me on the website and I'll get it sorted for you.

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&amp;kk=5ba0ff0eba240dd51b6bf07fff0abb0e

Re: Brexit

I'm still so pissed off about the whole thing. I knew it would be close, but I honestly never thought it would happen.

As far as Scotland goes, another independence vote looks to be in the works.

Oh look, I seem to have the same issue as deke.

Re: Brexit

imho it would be awesome if Scotland and N.Ireland voted for independence, and the Great Britain would dissolve and fade away. Now, that would be history in the making, and we could say; I was there, i saw it happen and i felt the world turn.

Re: Brexit

Kanga wrote:

It's no different then Australias bonds being broken with Great Britain, do you consider yourself xenophobic? Do you still reek of xenophobia? Can you feel the undercurrent of hate towards the British? HAVE YOU STOPPED BEATING YOUR WIFE YET? smile

You really don't appear to know what you are talking about. Have you ever spent any time in Australia?

Australia hasn't broken any bonds with Great Britain, we are still part of the commonwealth, the last 2 attempts to garner support to leave the commonwealth  by a vocal minority failed miserably, so no, I don't consider myself xenophobic nor have any reason too.

There is no undercurrent of hate towards the British, again, I have no idea why you think there is. I honestly don't know a single person who doesn't like the British......Americans yes, but British, No. A large number of Australians have British ancestory.....why would we hate them?

Have I stopped beating my wife? Im at a bit of a loss at this, adding a smilie emoji after accusing someone you don't know at all of domestic violence isn't ok, it's offensive, insulting to actual victims of domestic violence, completely inappropriate and has nothing whatsoever to do with a discussion of the U.K. Leaving the EU.

17 (edited by MeDumbDuck 2016-06-27 13:57:09)

Re: Brexit

Kanga wrote:

To be honest the smell is more akin to "Thank god we got a chance to get out of the mess that is the EU".

...

I want to stress that the UKs position is in direct opposition to what especially Germany/France(represented by Junckers) wants to get out of the EU and the UK have been paying the price for that by having next to no influence in the EU the last few years.

the UK having next to no influence in the EU. Really? Since 1999 UK has been in the minority 57 times and in the majority 2474 time and 70 times voted empty. These figures suggest that the EU was actually looking for the interest of UK more than any other nation in the union.


PS. https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13434843_10154301625561410_3927042489388153401_n.jpg?oh=006fd80a14747c335bc2e6188f589f70&amp;oe=57EEB82D

Re: Brexit

MeDumbDuck wrote:

imho it would be awesome if Scotland and N.Ireland voted for independence, and the Great Britain would dissolve and fade away. Now, that would be history in the making, and we could say; I was there, i saw it happen and i felt the world turn.

A colleague of mine had the idea that N. Ireland and Scotland should get independence, team up, and become a new country called Caledonia or something.

Re: Brexit

As a Pole living in UK here are my 2 cents:

1. UK citizens have every right to decide whether they want to be in EU or not, this is their right
2. EU has many problems, it was designed pretty badly, bureaucracy and democracy deficit are two obvious issues
3. Exhausted by economic crisis and facing immigrant crisis, many people in EU (not only UK) are disillusioned and angry with the elites. Let's take Angela Merkel, who a few years back was a politician with higher approval rating in Poland than most Polish politicians (oh irony). First the attitude towards Greeks, then one sided decision of letting all immigrants in and trying to force all other countries to pay for this, has shattered her image throughout Europe. Given how close the referendum result was, I am sure UK wouldn't leave if not for arrogance of Brussels bureaucrats on the immigration issue.

However:

1. EU got blamed for a lot of things that wasn't EU's fault. There are world-wide problems, some due to military conflicts, some are a result of globalisation. Most of the world have been paying the price of those changes for quite a while, UK got the invoice late and suddenly refuses to accept it, even though for a long time it was a beneficiary of those processes (one of the richest country in the world).
2. Very often democracy is a facade, the decisions are made by big business not the people. In 2005 Germany didn't accept Eastern European workers straightaway, but UK did because macroeconomic numbers, GDP and so on, needed it. Regardless of social costs. Flooded by migrant workers, UK lowered labour costs, politicians pretended they didn't foresee it. EU got blamed for it. Pattern repeated later with Romania and Bulgaria.

What will happen next?

1. In the long process of Brexit the politicians will ensure that any changes will be superficial. No current issues will be solved, however economic turmoil will set us back a bit.
2. They will "negotiate" special status or something which will mean UK will be a member of EU but without being called a member. Perhaps immigration from Eastern Europe will be limited for 3-4 years (quickly replaced by migrants from Africa and Asia - business needs them after all). UK's participation in EU budget will get smaller but also EU investment in UK will cease so no gain here.
3. No one will be sent home, those who voted for that will be disappointed.

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s450/Osiris_Wesir/worthwatch_zpsb42c769a.jpg

Re: Brexit

MeDumbDuck wrote:
Kanga wrote:

To be honest the smell is more akin to "Thank god we got a chance to get out of the mess that is the EU".

...

I want to stress that the UKs position is in direct opposition to what especially Germany/France(represented by Junckers) wants to get out of the EU and the UK have been paying the price for that by having next to no influence in the EU the last few years.

the UK having next to no influence in the EU. Really? Since 1999 UK has been in the minority 57 times and in the majority 2474 time and 70 times voted empty. These figures suggest that the EU was actually looking for the interest of UK more than any other nation in the union.

Strawman, the last few years means... the last few years, in context to the rest of my post that would be where there have been a focus on becoming even more federated in comparison to prior to let's say... before the last group of countries that joined the EU which would be 2013.

Re: Brexit

proteinnerd wrote:
Kanga wrote:

It's no different then Australias bonds being broken with Great Britain, do you consider yourself xenophobic? Do you still reek of xenophobia? Can you feel the undercurrent of hate towards the British? HAVE YOU STOPPED BEATING YOUR WIFE YET? smile

You really don't appear to know what you are talking about. Have you ever spent any time in Australia?

Australia hasn't broken any bonds with Great Britain, we are still part of the commonwealth, the last 2 attempts to garner support to leave the commonwealth  by a vocal minority failed miserably, so no, I don't consider myself xenophobic nor have any reason too.

There is no undercurrent of hate towards the British, again, I have no idea why you think there is. I honestly don't know a single person who doesn't like the British......Americans yes, but British, No. A large number of Australians have British ancestory.....why would we hate them?

Have I stopped beating my wife? Im at a bit of a loss at this, adding a smilie emoji after accusing someone you don't know at all of domestic violence isn't ok, it's offensive, insulting to actual victims of domestic violence, completely inappropriate and has nothing whatsoever to do with a discussion of the U.K. Leaving the EU.

Australia have broken bonds with the UK, in the 1930s and again in the 1980s if I remember correctly.

You're absolutely right, there is no undercurrent of hate towards anyone in the UK either. It's an absurd claim to say that it is on the rise here, it isn't. It's just as absurd as asking if you have stopped beating your wife yet. I'm sorry that you're not familiar with the phrase however it belongs to a group of fallacies called "loaded questions" which I tried to use to point out your loaded statements. The smiley was indicating that I meant it in jest and the whole statement should be taken as such.

22 (edited by xzeal 2016-06-28 16:56:34)

Re: Brexit

Well from what I understand the brexit was mostly about trying to stop the influx of immigrants.

The immigrants from other EU member states come to work in the UK because the wage cap is so large. I suppose crashing your own economy on purpose is one way to fix it.

Re: Brexit

The Brexit referendum seems to be becoming academic. I have my doubts that article 50 will ever be triggered. Consensus has been reached in the media and between most economists that the leave campaign's promises are totally unachievable and that if we do leave the EU it will be an economic catastrophe in the short term and deeply damaging in the medium term. The majority of the political classes are closing ranks across party divides to unite against the leave campaign.

Few people in the UK now think that BoJo seriously believes that Brexit is the right choice for the country - he just backed it to further his own political ambitions. He has been exposed as a liar and a fraud (why is anyone really surprised that he lied again? His personal history is littered with examples of deceitfulness and dishonesty. The man is a congenital liar), and he is going to be in very hot water indeed when the British working classes finally figure out that he conned them.

Re: Brexit

EU let in some bad apple states. But in the whole I think most have profited of the union especially early members. But as many point out only time will show the real effect but seeing as UK credit rating is lowered for now it will be a poorer country to start with.

Re: Brexit

CarmarthenLad wrote:

The Brexit referendum seems to be becoming academic. I have my doubts that article 50 will ever be triggered. Consensus has been reached in the media and between most economists that the leave campaign's promises are totally unachievable and that if we do leave the EU it will be an economic catastrophe in the short term and deeply damaging in the medium term. The majority of the political classes are closing ranks across party divides to unite against the leave campaign..

The leave campaign was never in a position to promise anything, the only thing they could do was to suggest where any money saved could be used. They don't have a plan for leaving either, that would be the government who is supposed to create one and the leave campaign wasn't the government so no planning or promises, it simply wasn't their job. As for this economic catastrophe, the markets seems to have stabilized and the growth prediction have been lowered with 0.3% for this year which I personally would consider fantastic as I feared much worse myself but that only goes to show how much fear was used as a tool in the remain campaign.

CarmarthenLad wrote:

Few people in the UK now think that BoJo seriously believes that Brexit is the right choice for the country - he just backed it to further his own political ambitions. He has been exposed as a liar and a fraud (why is anyone really surprised that he lied again? His personal history is littered with examples of deceitfulness and dishonesty. The man is a congenital liar), and he is going to be in very hot water indeed when the British working classes finally figure out that he conned them.

If only life was so simple that we could judge politicians on the amount of bullshit they let out and let it be reflected in the votes, perhaps that would make democracy work but utopias aside smile