Re: 4x13

First off, AMC ordered 16 episodes, which is 3 episodes more than what they usually call a regular season. And since they had to fight with Sony (the studio producing Breaking Bad) about the costs part of the deal is that those 16 episodes are it. No more will be produced after that. What AMC does with these episodes is up to them - they could air them as one last fifth season or (which is more likely) they will split it up into two 8-episode seasons. (Or maybe four 4-episode mini-series wink )

Secondly, this was all decided after the last episode of this season was written (and probably even shot), because they were shooting in January and AMC then postponed the airing of the season as a negotiating tactic. But that has no meaning on the story because Vince Gilligan expected to have at least one more season to finish his story. And even if that fell through, like any good head writer, Gilligan writes every finale so that it could serve as a series finale.

Spoiler

Lastly, I am glad I was proven right about Walt poisoning the little boy.For me it would have been very much in-character for Walt - smart, devious and oh so evil - but the missing link was when Walt could have gotten to Jesse's ricin cigarette. But this way he didn't have to and using that plant was very smart because it is easily dismissed as something the boy could have swallowed himself, accidentally. And make no mistake, the last shot was there telling us that Walt poisoned the boy.

Robcore wrote:

It's called 'Breaking Bad', not 'Making Drugs'...so the last season doesn't have to be about drugs...it's going to be about Walt dying as an unredeemable, evil, criminal...

According to Vince Gilligan the story is about Walt's transformation from victim to predator, which is something the show does very nicely. Part of it is going to be that Walt now has a chance to step away from the drug game and go back to a normal life, but he is enjoying being a predator too much ("It is me who knocks!" and "I won!" being clear indicators) to let that happen.

I think his desire to be a bad man coupled with their financial trouble - he lost most of the money he made so his family is still not provided for (if you believe Walt's self-delusion) - will make him go back to cooking, thinking he's now smart enough to avoid all the pitfalls. Mark my words, he'll be back to cooking meth by episode four of next season.

Ultimately Walt will die in the series finale - either through cancer or through his life style - that much has been all but confirmed by both Gilligan and Bryan Cranston. Whether it's Skyler or Hank, or Jesse or some random punk ... well, that's the question. I still hope the show will address what would happen if Hank found out - I believe the battle between Hank's pride and his job / duty would be fascinating to watch ...

Robcore wrote:

...I find it to be a very interesting show for the fact that it does compel us to cheer for a bad guy...I mean, at this point, Walt isn't any more morally righteous than Gus or Mike or anyone we've met...Walt has killed at least 8 people or so at this point...and he has no remorse about it either...and the means by which he's accomplished these killings has been more and more awful...

I noticed that as a trait in many US shows. It's not really cheering for a bad guy, but cheering for somebody who is great at what they do - a bad ass in other words. Shows and movies make us cheer and root for people who are good at what they do and thus subliminally motivate us to be good at our own jobs (which is really insidious). So it's not so much cheering for Walt because he is bad, but because when he does something smart and extraordinary we are programmed to enjoy it. It's the same with anti-heroes - we don't like Riddick because he's evil, we like him because he is a bad ass that can beat up a guy one-handed with a soup cup smile

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Re: 4x13

marco1475 wrote:

I think his desire to be a bad man coupled with their financial trouble - he lost most of the money he made so his family is still not provided for (if you believe Walt's self-delusion) - will make him go back to cooking, thinking he's now smart enough to avoid all the pitfalls. Mark my words, he'll be back to cooking meth by episode four of next season.

well, they still own a Carwash worth about 800k, right?


marco1475 wrote:

...Ultimately Walt will die in the series finale - either through cancer or through his life style - that much has been all but confirmed by both Gilligan and Bryan Cranston. Whether it's Skyler or Hank, or Jesse or some random punk ... well, that's the question. I still hope the show will address what would happen if Hank found out - I believe the battle between Hank's pride and his job / duty would be fascinating to watch ...

in my disturbed mind an ending could also be that he will lose everything family, friends and is going  to rot in jail for the rest of his life knowing that  nobody likes him  anymore.
If he dies he still could turn out to  be a hero to his family by covering up his involving in things.....

hmm I remember reading an article not long ago in which Gilligan said it's not clear if they will kill bill:

AS BREAKING BAD NEARS ITS FINAL SEASON, DOES GILLIGAN KNOW HOW IT WILL ALL END? HAS HE ALREADY WRITTEN THE FINAL SCENE IN HIS HEAD? | The answers are no, and no. “I wish I did — but then again I don’t wish I did, because … there’s a lot of invention left to be done on Breaking Bad,” he told us. “We’ve got 16 more hours to fill, and honestly I don’t exactly know where it’s all going to wind up — and I think that’s a good thing. When we get back in the writers room in mid-November, we’re going to do it the way we’ve always done it, which is build it brick-by-brick…. The best I can say is I’ve got hopes and dreams for the characters, but I don’t have any solid plot moments for them yet. We’re going to find it when we find it.”

Thoughts from Bryan Cranston:
I asked [Breaking Bad creator] Vince Gilligan if he has any idea what the very final scene of the series will be, and he said no. But has he given you any sense of what the Season 5 arc will be?
No — and I never ask, either. It would be like turning on the lights and going through a haunted house tour before you experience it in the dark. “And here’s where the skeleton will jump out, and here’s where you’ll feel the grapes and we’ll tell you it’s eyeballs….” It’s been such a journey for me and for this character that it didn’t make sense for me to know too far ahead, because Walt has no idea what’s ahead for him, even an hour. So I don’t ask, and I don’t read my scripts too far in advance.

But can you imagine that next season is anything but Walt putting this all behind him and trying to return to normalcy?
You know, there was that moment at the end of the last episode, where in a self-assured way said, “I won” – and he was happy about that. I think Walt’s going to a place where he truly enjoys the empowerment that his situation has given him. And even though he knows he’s going out in a year, from lung cancer, he’s going to go out big. He’s going out big.


The whole Interviews are  @ tvline.com if anybody is interested

Re: 4x13

...I find it to be a very interesting show for the fact that it does compel us to cheer for a bad guy...I mean, at this point, Walt isn't any more morally righteous than Gus or Mike or anyone we've met...Walt has killed at least 8 people or so at this point...and he has no remorse about it either...and the means by which he's accomplished these killings has been more and more awful...

Marco wrote:
I noticed that as a trait in many US shows. It's not really cheering for a bad guy, but cheering for somebody who is great at what they do - a bad ass in other words. Shows and movies make us cheer and root for people who are good at what they do and thus subliminally motivate us to be good at our own jobs (which is really insidious). So it's not so much cheering for Walt because he is bad, but because when he does something smart and extraordinary we are programmed to enjoy it. It's the same with anti-heroes - we don't like Riddick because he's evil, we like him because he is a bad ass that can beat up a guy one-handed with a soup cup

...well, often we'll cheer for good guys who are terrible at everything they do as well. Some Steve Carrell characters come to mind, though there are many examples...even Leonard from TBBT...we want him to get the girl...but he sucks with women.

It used to be that we cheered for good guys because they were awesome...Superman, Indiana Jones, James Bond, etc. The villains were opposite the awesome heroes....and now it's the villains who are impressive, and the heroes who are the underdogs....Spiderman is a wimpy nerd, and Green Goblin is a strong genius....Walt is a badass genius, Hank is a not-quite-as-sophisticated cripple....
...even the new James Bond is less classy and crisp...he's rough around the edges, and the villains are smarter.
...in the original Superman films, Lex was a fool, now he's friggin' Kevin Spacey! ha ha.

We're given far more reason to root for the villains these days...writers want us to side with them/sympathize with them....and then kick us in the teeth by having the hero's one success in life finally come to fruition with the downfall of the villain...and even then, it is usually by providence that the hero's plan is even able to work...

-Rob

29 (edited by spanx 2011-10-14 13:25:39)

Re: 4x13

Why does Cranston say Walk knows he is dying from lung cancer? I thought Walt was in remission and basically healed!? I never heard anything about 1 year left to live.  neutral

I hope that season 5 will not move away from the original plot too far kinda like Prison Break season 4.
For example if now drug guys from Germany showed up looking for Walt because he killed Gus then this would really suck. 16 episodes isn't enough time to start a lot of "new" things. I think they shouldn't introduce many new characters and rather keep it basic.

What also makes no sense is why should Walt be safe only because Gus is dead? Did Gus only have those few men and now his whole team is dead besides Mike and noones going to come after Walt for killing Gus? That's not very realistic. Gus must have a lot of people working for him.

Re: 4x13

Robcore wrote:

Why would it suck for Walt to die?

I don't get what people like about stories where the bad guy gets away with it. I mean, nobody is happy about what happened with OJ Simpson! LOL

-Rob

I don't see Walt as bad guy. Maybe it's because the other guys are even worse.
And if Walt's bad then isn't Jesse bad as well? Maybe not as bad but do they now want to kill
all "bad guys" so that the show has a politically correct end? That would suck.

Re: 4x13

Yeah i though he was in remission also where the hell did you get 1year from ?

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Re: 4x13

spanx wrote:
Robcore wrote:

Why would it suck for Walt to die?

I don't get what people like about stories where the bad guy gets away with it. I mean, nobody is happy about what happened with OJ Simpson! LOL

-Rob

I don't see Walt as bad guy. Maybe it's because the other guys are even worse.
And if Walt's bad then isn't Jesse bad as well? Maybe not as bad but do they now want to kill
all "bad guys" so that the show has a politically correct end? That would suck.

Walt has killed like...8 people? Jesse has killed 2 I think...only Jesse is conflicted about all the killing...as Walt was in season 1....there's something redeemable in Jesse. Walt is just evil now...
Jesse is still sort of naive and reactive, while Walt is calculating and intentional...

...and ending it with Walt dying isn't about political correctness, it is about resolving the main plot. There is no redeeming for Walt now, so obviously you can't end the show with him getting away, because if he did, he'd become even more evil, so it wouldn't be the end of the story. Walt has to die, because that's the only way to resolve the plot of the show.
...the only questions would be whether he shows any smidgen of integrity in his final moments, or if he is entirely converted to the dark side...and if it's the cancer that gets him, or if someone else beats the cancer to it(my guess is that it'll be either Hank or Skylar that puts a bullet in him...).

...I think it's naive to not think of Walt as a bad guy at this point. I mean, you saw what happened to Gus, right? ...and you saw the final scene in Walt's back yard... Evil!

-Rob

Re: 4x13

@ dominar

Scroll up and read the Cranston interview he said this here:

I think Walt’s going to a place where he truly enjoys the empowerment that his situation has given him. And even though he knows he’s going out in a year, from lung cancer, he’s going to go out big. He’s going out big.

@ robcore

I don't think that killing Gus was necessarily evil. It was either Gus or Walt + Walt's family + Hank.
He basically had no other choice. Of course he is manipulative but he had to use Jesse. There was no other way. I also don't know if the boy could have died from the poison or if Walt knew that this stuff couldn't kill him. If he risked the boy dying then this of course wasn't okay.

Re: 4x13

See, that's the thing...it's evil. Walt could do the right thing and confess...tell the cops everything...about Gus and Mike, etc. He could protect his family too...but no, he does things the evil way now...and justifies it by keeping his family in danger...by staying in that dangerous world and maintaining the lie...

-Rob

Re: 4x13

spanx wrote:

@ robcore

I don't think that killing Gus was necessarily evil. It was either Gus or Walt + Walt's family + Hank.
He basically had no other choice. Of course he is manipulative but he had to use Jesse. There was no other way. I also don't know if the boy could have died from the poison or if Walt knew that this stuff couldn't kill him. If he risked the boy dying then this of course wasn't okay.

Walt actually crossed the irredeemable line to evil in season two (I think) when he let Jesse's girlfriend choke on her own spit in her sleep. And let Jesse carry the burden of the responsibility for her death. I agree with Robcore there is no redeeming Walt anymore.

But I'm not so sure about Walt dying anymore. Yes, all the Robcore says makes sense, and it is kind of needed to close the story, but I could very much imagine a The Shield-like ending (which still ranks as one of the best series finales of all time).

"We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go."
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Re: 4x13

Haven't seen The Shield...could you describe what such an ending would look like in Breaking Bad terms?

...I suppose since the show really is going to end as a tragedy one way or another, what could be even worse is for everyone that Walt loves to end up dead...Skylar, Walt Jr., Hank....for Walt to get away with it all, and have nothing to get away with it for....

-Rob

Re: 4x13

What's the Shield?

Is this show comparable to Breaking Bad? Cause I'm looking for new series to bridge the time til the BB starts again.

Re: 4x13

The Shield is a masterpiece!

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39 (edited by marco1475 2011-10-16 03:21:44)

Re: 4x13

Robcore wrote:

Haven't seen The Shield...could you describe what such an ending would look like in Breaking Bad terms?

The Shield's ending in Breaking Bad terms would be close to what you described, but with less death: Imagine there is a way for Walt to get away scot-free (think immunity from authorities and all criminal loose ends tied up, maybe thanks to his deal with the authorities), but the price is that he has to publicly come clean about everything he's done, betray Jesse by making him take the fall for all the evil Walt has done and go to jail for life. Walt then ends up living alone, because his family hates him, and is forced to work in a job that he despises that still somehow reminds him of his glory days as a meth cook (maybe help the DEA track down other meth cooks).

spanx wrote:

What's the Shield?

Is this show comparable to Breaking Bad? Cause I'm looking for new series to bridge the time til the BB starts again.

And yes, The Shield is a masterpiece - very thrilling and aggressive with a masterful ending. (Its ending is actually very closely applicable to Breaking Bad. Everyone was thinking the main protagonist of The Shield, an anti-hero just like Walt, had to die in the series finale and pay the price for his misdeeds, but the show ended with

Spoiler

him getting away but being confined to a personal hell.)

But The Shield is a cop drama about corruption etc., not a drug drama, so I wouldn't necessarily compare it with Breaking Bad. It's a different kind of show.

"We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go."
-- Colonel Tigh

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Re: 4x13

It's too bad that The Shield has 7 seasons. I'd rather follow a running show which is relatively new. It's more exciting to watch the new episodes every week than to watch them all at once. I also don't have time to watch 7 seasons now.

I don't think I'd want to switch with Gilligan. Deciding how BB is going to end must be very hard.
But maybe if everybody expects Walt to die at the end this could influence him to do exactly the opposite in order to create an unexpected ending.

Re: 4x13

It's not CSI like seasons. There are 7 short seasons. Only season 3 had 15 eps ,the rest are 13 episodes max. And you won't get bored , there are 89 amazing episodes.

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Re: 4x13

Also you could always just watch one episode of The Shield a week. Nobody's forcing you to watch all seasons or even multiple episodes at once. (Although I doubt you'll be able to stop once it gets going. Just a hunch wink )

"We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go."
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Re: 4x13

I'll give it a try.

But somehow it's always the same. When I'm looking for a replacement I always feel like there's no other show which could replace the old one.

Re: 4x13

Just saw the season finale of Breaking Bad. Amazing acting, amazing story. Just Brilliant... Delay was caused by Buffy/Angel though big_smile

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Re: 4x13

Spyder23 wrote:

Just saw the season finale of Breaking Bad. Amazing acting, amazing story. Just Brilliant... Delay was caused by Buffy/Angel though big_smile

Just watched it too..Brilliant. Next episode in 10 days! woohooo!

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