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Topic: 6x11 The God Complex

So it turns out Steven Moffat isn't the only writer on Doctor Who who can craft spectacular and touching stories. Well done, Mr. Whithouse, very well done indeed.

Spoiler

Just out of curiosity, how sure are we Karen Gillian and Arthur Darvill are coming back next season? I felt the choice to "say goodbye" two episodes before the end of the season is very inspired and Amy's "he's saving us" has been mirroring sentiments from the end of season 4 and the specials between season 4 and 5.

I'd like to be sure that this was just a clever way to give us a follow up to "The Lodger" without the need to somehow stash Amy and Rory somewhere, hide them or write them a lame B-story. I do believe it is all a build up to the ultimate message of the season, "why the Doctor needs companions," but it sure was elaborate ...

"We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go."
-- Colonel Tigh

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Re: 6x11 The God Complex

Maybe it's just me looking too much into it, but at the end of the previous episode I thought, "Rule #1: The Doctor lies", as he told everyone that he could save the older Amy.
Now at the end of this episode I'm thinking, "Silence will fall", as there's no one else now in the TARDIS, and the ending was erringly quiet.

yikes
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big_smile

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Re: 6x11 The God Complex

Halo2 wrote:

Maybe it's just me looking too much into it, but at the end of the previous episode I thought, "Rule #1: The Doctor lies", as he told everyone that he could save the older Amy.
Now at the end of this episode I'm thinking, "Silence will fall", as there's no one else now in the TARDIS, and the ending was erringly quiet.

Spoiler


Regarding the "Silence will fall" comment, I would say, look to Episode 13's summary for a clue:
   
"The Doctor arrives at Lake Silencio in Utah because he needs to keep the universe safe - by going to his own death." 

"Silencio" is Spanish for Silence big_smile

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Re: 6x11 The God Complex

im not getting pengu's spoiler so youre saying the lake will fall? Or ask a question to the lake and silence falls? Or go into the lake before asking the age-old question? really im not followin

"Au naturel maybe, thats the way i like it. Swing low, sweet chariots." Creed Bratton

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Re: 6x11 The God Complex

Congratulations to mr Toby Whithouse. Growing to like the man more. School Reunion was great but the Vampires of Venice I thought were a bit disappointing. Then I remembered he created the incredibly witty Being Human.
This was a good episode, compliments well Moffat's idea that the Doctor is somehow a very old and wise Peter Pan, but, as in Peter Pan, his companions need to grow up. I really hope this is not a red herring kind of thing.

Everybody lives, just this once, everybody lives!

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Re: 6x11 The God Complex

He's saying the name of the lake in which The Doctor dies is called Silencio which is Spanish for Silence. So The Doctor falls at Lake Silence. Which is eerily similar to the 10th and Rose's goodbye being at Bad Wolf Bay. Common trend with The Doctor goodbye being at a lake named after the season's long hidden word.

The obvious thing to take away from this episode is that The Doctor's faith is in his Tardis since him opening the door you could hear the brakes, I just wonder if that's really what it is since they never showed it. Also the Minotaur's last words being about death not being an escape or something along those lines...need to re-listen to that part again.

I feel bad that the obvious never occurred to me until the end of the episode that they were in a labyrinth.

7 (edited by Kal 2011-09-19 11:19:44)

Re: 6x11 The God Complex

Rwings wrote:

The obvious thing to take away from this episode is that The Doctor's faith is in his Tardis since him opening the door you could hear the brakes, I just wonder if that's really what it is since they never showed it.

I think you're slightly off the mark there.  What was in the rooms was still supposed to represent the individual's fears; the twist was just that He wasn't feeding directly on that fear, but on the faith that the victims would subsequently draw on to stave off their fear.  So what was inside the Doctor's room was supposed to be his fear.

As to exactly what was in the room, I don't know where you're getting "brakes" from; we can certainly hear the Cloister Bell, so all we know for sure that a TARDIS is within earshot, and that something bad is happening (and that bad thing is probably somehow timey-wimey.) 

I think it's probably a safe assumption that the scene through the door would be onboard, probably the console room, and probably the Doctor's TARDIS, but I will admit that at least in part those assumptions are based on my own gut feel for the style of storytelling typically used in Doctor Who smile  I take some of it from the... timbre(?) of the Cloister Bell - it sounds to me like the bell sounds from within the TARDIS, but not from up close - so the console room seems the most likely candidate both from that and for storytelling purposes.

So, to (finally!) get to my point.  I think it should be kept in mind that although whatever was through the Doctor's door certainly involved the TARDIS, it wasn't necessarily about the TARDIS, at least not entirely.  If it was a scene set in the console room, it could be any person or thing that could be in the console room.  "Of course. Who else." doesn't necessarily refer to the TARDIS it(/her)self.

So I think that's a thing that should be kept in mind - who was it, or was it the TARDIS?  That and the assumptions that it was even the Doctor's TARDIS we were hearing, or that the scene was onboard rather than e.g. near a parked poorly TARDIS with the door open wink  All of those things are the sorts of rugs that Moffat takes such pleasure in pulling out from underneath us, so I think it's worth keeping in mind.

It is mostly guesswork at this point, but for my money, it was a scene in the console room of the Doctor's dying TARDIS, and it was either the Doctor, or River at the helm.

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My guess is it was the 12th doctor in the Tardis, only thing that makes sense to me.

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Kal, you are spot on. Fantastic analysis.

I do agree that the Doctor's room had something to do with the TARDIS. The bell could be heard for example in season 4's "Bad Wolf" reveal when Donna relayed Rose's message to the Doctor. At that point the Doctor said it was "the end of the universe." The sound itself would suggest that it was just something really bad happening, not necessarily the TARDIS dying - I don't remember the bell ringing when River was in the TARDIS as it exploded at the end of season 5 and created the tears in reality.

But my thoughts also went directly to the TARDIS dying, that being the Doctor's biggest fear. But you raise a few valid points as to who was in the TARDIS and maybe something bad happening to them in the TARDIS would be the cause for the bell to ring. (The Doctor's "real" death might certainly qualify, but somehow I don't think the Doctor is so vain that his own death would be his biggest fear. He certainly risks his life a lot for that to be the case.)

In any case since the death of the TARDIS is a very logical conclusion I am almost certain that was not it and I hope we get to revisit that scene in the finale (or even further down the line) and marvel at Moffat's brilliance ...

"We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go."
-- Colonel Tigh

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=6a46bed7e7b08a8ca752faaaa99a03bd

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Re: 6x11 The God Complex

The only thing that scares The Doctor is himself and who he will become which is why he has so many rules to stop himself which is why I think the 12th is who scares him the most. Which is also why I want to see the Dream Lord again

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Re: 6x11 The God Complex

Thanks Marco smile

If you're interested, the article on the Cloister Bell over at the TARDIS Index is worth a look, there's a complete list of all it's appearances over the years.  That's the well from which Moffat is drawing to provide the gravitas for the scene, so it's interesting to check out where he might be looking for inspiration. 

It doesn't really narrow the possibilities down though - the Cloister Bell has sounded for reasons including things being wrong with the TARDIS itself, things being wrong with the Doctor, and things being wrong with the universe.  It's even been suggested it could be rung by hand if necessary.

It's a perfect bit of Doctor Who foreshadowing - just enough information that we can have fun with the wild speculation in the mean time, but unspecific enough to mean they can still pretty much write whatever they want as the eventual payoff!