Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

poncherello wrote:
sean14 wrote:
poncherello wrote:

Atlantis, now Universe... wonder what new show they'll have next for the Stargate genre just so they can ruin it for us fans =p

First of all, Atlantis was great, much better that some of sg-1 seasons. And second, if you don't like the show, don't watch it, and don't bother the fans by writing stuff like the once above.


You kinda got it wrong, Atlantis and SGU are shows that i really liked.  I was part of the Tayla Haters club on this forum for crying out loud ;-).... but our hate for tayla might have gotten too far. 

Atlantis, they kinda killed it for me when they got rid of Dr. Weir and this cancellation for SGU and now the whole stargate franchise is crappy.

If you like the show so much why do you say its crappy. witch it isn't. I won't discuss this, because is just a matter of opinions and we can't give facts about how good or bad it was.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

poncherello wrote:
sean14 wrote:
poncherello wrote:

Atlantis, now Universe... wonder what new show they'll have next for the Stargate genre just so they can ruin it for us fans =p

First of all, Atlantis was great, much better that some of sg-1 seasons. And second, if you don't like the show, don't watch it, and don't bother the fans by writing stuff like the once above.


You kinda got it wrong

That should be:

You just don't understand how wrong you are

tongue

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53 (edited by sean14 2011-04-29 17:29:28)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:
sean14 wrote:
XtazyMike wrote:

well , I checked at stargate wiki and about the drives and FTL , it was never clear how the ship travels at FTL speed but it says that they work on similar concept but hyperdrive travel requires a ship opening a sub space window in order to travel.
In fact , it could be that FTL is older version to hyperdrive travel while the stardrive (that is what Mckay fixed) is the most powerful drive

You just don't understand how wrong you are, FTL is any matter or information that travels faster than the speed of light, so by that definition, hyperdrive, is FTL. So the Asgards, the goaul'd, the Ori, the Furling, the Nox, the ancients, the replicator (build by the ancients) and i can keep going naming razes, all had FTL travel. Another fact is that wormholes (the gates) are also FTL. so when you talked about the ancients not having FTL you really got it wrong.

Ah, Mr. K. All, I believe he is talking about the difference between Hyperdrive and FTL drive. As mentioned earlier, we're all well aware (even more so after you're informative post) that they are both types of FTL travel. It seems that only the Ancients (and subsequently maybe the Ori) had the FTL drive technology.

sean14 wrote:
XtazyMike wrote:

4. Until dialing the 9th chevron , they didn't even know that there are ships traveling at FTL speed and that you can gate to them while they are in FTL.

i believe that for what i explained to you above is pretty obvious they did know FTL traveling ships existed

They knew that FTL travel existed, but they didn't know about Destiny's FTL drive. It's a completely different form of interstellar travel compared to that of Hyperdrive, which seems to be promintent (and have superseded FTL) in most of the known galaxies.

sean14 wrote:

they did not know you could dial in to them while being in hyperspace.

You are wrong. Destiny isn't in Hyperspace as it doesn't have a Hyperdrive, it has a FTL drive!

sean14 wrote:
Halo2 wrote:

Anyway, the fact remains they would have know about the blackhole pretty early, earthquakes or not, so they had at least 800+ years to develop a solution.
I do agree with what you said about FTL not being a possibility.

In other matter, they did see the black hole coming thats why they left, they came up with a solution in time. They just exploited their time on the planet as much as the could.

They clearly didn't otherwise they would have moved the gate, and/or built ships with FTL abilities.

They couldn't move the gate because it had been destroyed or broken in the earthquake/volcanic activity and even if they could they didn't need to because the other planet might have a gate of its own and they couldn't built FTL because they weren't enough technologically advance. It would be like if I tell you to built an FTL drive nowadays, you won't be able to do it, because you don't understand it. If they hadn't predicted the black hole they would all be dead because they wouldn't have left the planet.

54 (edited by Halo2 2011-04-29 17:36:36)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:

They couldn't move the gate because it had been destroyed or broken in the earthquake/volcanic activity

Caused by the blackhole, which they knew about...

sean14 wrote:

they couldn't built FTL because they weren't enough technologically advance.

This is the whole point of the discussion we've been having.

EDIT:

sean14 wrote:

even if they could they didn't need to because the other planet might have a gate of its own

What's that got to do with it? Of course the other planet (let's call it Novus 2) had a gate of its own, otherwise they would never have been able to get to it in the first place!

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Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:
sean14 wrote:

They couldn't move the gate because it had been destroyed or broken in the earthquake/volcanic activity

Caused by the blackhole, which they knew about...

sean14 wrote:

they couldn't built FTL because they weren't enough technologically advance.

This is the whole point of the discussion we've been having.

EDIT:

sean14 wrote:

even if they could they didn't need to because the other planet might have a gate of its own

What's that got to do with it?

What possible benefit could they have by moving the gate?? you can't evacuate an entire population of millions by 1 gate.
And in the episode if you watch it again you will find that Park, Volker or Brody i don't remember says that they weren't enough technologically advance to generate FTL travel.

56 (edited by Halo2 2011-04-29 17:41:19)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:

What possible benefit could they have by moving the gate??

To stop it being buried/destroyed in the lava flow maybe?

sean14 wrote:

you can't evacuate an entire population of millions by 1 gate.

Why can't you, they had long enough... The population wouldn't have been in the millions after 1000 years.
Anyway, I imagine they didn't want to leave their home, and tried their best to save it.

sean14 wrote:

And in the episode if you watch it again you will find that Park, Volker or Brody i don't remember says that they weren't enough technologically advance to generate FTL travel.

To reiterate, that is the whole point of the discussion, why weren't they?

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57 (edited by sean14 2011-04-29 17:48:07)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:
sean14 wrote:

What possible benefit could they have by moving the gate??

To stop it being buried/destroyed in the lava flow maybe?

sean14 wrote:

you can't evacuate an entire population of millions by 1 gate.

Why can't you, they had long enough... The population wouldn't have been in the millions after 1000 years.
Anyway, I imagine they didn't want to leave their home, and tried their best to save it.

sean14 wrote:

And in the episode if you watch it again you will find that Park, Volker or Brody i don't remember says that they weren't enough technologically advance to generate FTL travel.

To reiterate, that is the whole point of the discussion, why weren't they?

That question is like asking why aren't we? Or why weren't the people of ancient greek advance to built computers. It is a really stupid question, I'm sorry but it is.

And in minute 16 of the episode, Eli says that they started evacuating by the stargate, but when it was destroyed by lava eruption (unpredictable event) they needed to figure out another evacuating way. So its possible they didn't had enough time to perfect FTL.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:

That question is like asking why aren't we? ... It is a really stupid question, I'm sorry but it is.

Not really as we didn't have access to that kind of technology like they did (before they arrived on Novus).

sean14 wrote:

Or why weren't the people of ancient greek advance to built computers.

This is a totally moronic statement, they didn't have the technology, the foresight, nor the understanding at that time.

sean14 wrote:

And in minute 16 of the episode, Eli says that they started evacuating by the stargate, but when it was destroyed by lava eruption (unpredictable event) they needed to figure out another evacuating way. So its possible they didn't had enough time to perfect FTL.

Ah, a useful bit of information. That explains why they didn't use the Stargate.

Though you would have thought that the scientists at the time (they were pretty advance) would be able to predict at least the effect/damage on the planet, and put the gate somewhere safer. Should of built Cloudbase instead tongue

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59 (edited by sean14 2011-04-29 18:09:31)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:
sean14 wrote:

That question is like asking why aren't we? ... It is a really stupid question, I'm sorry but it is.

Not really as we didn't have access to that kind of technology like they did (before they arrived on Novus).

sean14 wrote:

Or why weren't the people of ancient greek advance to built computers.

This is a totally moronic statement, they didn't have the technology, the foresight, nor the understanding at that time.

sean14 wrote:

And in minute 16 of the episode, Eli says that they started evacuating by the stargate, but when it was destroyed by lava eruption (unpredictable event) they needed to figure out another evacuating way. So its possible they didn't had enough time to perfect FTL.

Ah, a useful bit of information. That explains why they didn't use the Stargate.

Though you would have thought that the scientists at the time (they were pretty advance) would be able to predict at least the effect/damage on the planet, and put the gate somewhere safer. Should of built Cloudbase instead tongue

You see where you are wrong don't you. First of all we don't know how advance they were, so we don't know what they could or couldn't predict. Second In Stargate Sg-1 and Atlantis, they did had access to advance technology and even then they couldn't replicate it. Third, they loose their access to FTL when destiny is destroyed, so for the scientists of Novus, after 2000 years, it would be a little hard to know how an FTL worked or was built when Eli that was the one leaving the recordings, didn't know. And last, Park in minute 19 says that the in the geothermal database of novus there was record of the black hole entering the system. So the did know about it.

60 (edited by Halo2 2011-04-29 18:10:16)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:

You see where you are wrong don't you.

I'm sorry I don't, do you want to point it out? Oh you have...

sean14 wrote:

...

I give up! It's all conjecture, it's a bloody TV show. We were having a discussion about it until you come in with you size 10's and tell everyone they "wrong" and they "don't understand how wrong they are", when in fact they are not wrong, it's their damn opinion as no one (not even you, Mr. K. All) knows what the answer is, and we never will as it's a TV show. We're just throwing ideas around.

I suppose you know where the Furlings went in SG-1 don't you?

[/RANT]

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Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:
sean14 wrote:

You see where you are wrong don't you.

I'm sorry I don't, do you want to point it out? Oh you have...

sean14 wrote:

...

I give up! It's all conjecture, it's a bloody TV show. We were having a discussion about it until you come in with you size 10's and tell everyone they "wrong" and they "don't understand how wrong they are", when in fact they are not wrong, it's their damn opinion as no one (not even you, Mr. K. All) knows what the answer is, and we never will as it's a TV show. We're just throwing ideas around.

I suppose you know where the Furlings went in SG-1 don't you?

[/RANT]

No, not really, i don't know where the furling went. but i don't talk opinion, i talk facts, things that can be corroborated by what you 'see' (and thats a key word) on the show, not thing that i imagine or i think that may or may not be true.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Stop arguing . Like Halo said ... it's a damn Tv Show .

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Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

And for your information an opinion can be wrong. In my opinion Rush's name may be Pedro, but it isn't, it is Nicholas.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Spyder23 wrote:

Stop arguing . Like Halo said ... it's a damn Tv Show .

Exactly, there's a lot of people working behind it, that puts a lot of effort into it. but no, he is over this people, because he knows more than everyone else, he is a super genius of science fiction Tv shows, and he can come and just demerit all of their work.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

roll

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Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Now the nerdiness isn't that endearing.

I'm a sad panda.  sad

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:

First of all we don't know how advance they were, so we don't know what they could or couldn't predict.

Dude, are you serious? We do know that they were as advanced as us (at least mentally) when they arrived. Meaning that they had a 2000 year head start, which I think someone has already mentioned.

With that fact (and our visual knowledge of their city), they most likely would've had the ability to predict a black hole. As well as being able to make an FTL drive, but apparently they didn't.

Not just the Spanish maine my love. The entire ocean. The entire world!

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Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:
Spyder23 wrote:

Stop arguing . Like Halo said ... it's a damn Tv Show .

Exactly, there's a lot of people working behind it, that puts a lot of effort into it. but no, he is over this people, because he knows more than everyone else, he is a super genius of science fiction Tv shows, and he can come and just demerit all of their work.

You don't know how wrong you are (have I said it correctly?), but it's your opinion so I'll except it, just to move on roll

toidol wrote:

Now the nerdiness isn't that endearing.

I'm a sad panda.  sad

Chin up, we've surmised that the people on Novus weren't great at planning ahead, and that their descendants didn't watch Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons (or Doctor Who for that matter), or at least tell their children about it!

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Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:
sean14 wrote:
Spyder23 wrote:

Stop arguing . Like Halo said ... it's a damn Tv Show .

Exactly, there's a lot of people working behind it, that puts a lot of effort into it. but no, he is over this people, because he knows more than everyone else, he is a super genius of science fiction Tv shows, and he can come and just demerit all of their work.

You don't know how wrong you are (have I said it correctly?), but it's your opinion so I'll except it, just to move on roll

toidol wrote:

Now the nerdiness isn't that endearing.

I'm a sad panda.  sad

Chin up, we've surmised that the people on Novus weren't great at planning ahead, and that their descendants didn't watch Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons (or Doctor Who for that matter), or at least tell their children about it!

You know what, you are right. go on, become a TV critic, because you are so good at it and demerit all those people hard work like it was an idea that they just recorded for fun, and there is not thought behind every chapter. I think you should not go so easy on criticizing other people works, when you haven't done anything better and you can't do it better. And if you can, become a director and make yourself famous and millionaire. wink

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Vana wrote:
sean14 wrote:

First of all we don't know how advance they were, so we don't know what they could or couldn't predict.

Dude, are you serious? We do know that they were as advanced as us (at least mentally) when they arrived. Meaning that they had a 2000 year head start, which I think someone has already mentioned.

With that fact (and our visual knowledge of their city), they most likely would've had the ability to predict a black hole. As well as being able to make an FTL drive, but apparently they didn't.

sean14 wrote:

And last, Park in minute 19 says that the in the geothermal database of novus there was record of the black hole entering the system. So the did know about it.

Im saying that they could predict the black hole, but they couldn't built FTL drives, because they would have don it if they could. And the FTL drives don't change anything in the chapters trama

71 (edited by marco1475 2011-04-30 02:09:31)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Vana wrote:
sean14 wrote:

First of all we don't know how advance they were, so we don't know what they could or couldn't predict.

Dude, are you serious? We do know that they were as advanced as us (at least mentally) when they arrived. Meaning that they had a 2000 year head start, which I think someone has already mentioned.

With that fact (and our visual knowledge of their city), they most likely would've had the ability to predict a black hole. As well as being able to make an FTL drive, but apparently they didn't.

I think you guys are overestimating the usable knowledge the crew of the Destiny had when they arrived on Novus. They made it pretty clear that they had no books or recordings and only very few possessions.

So first of all you waste several hundred years of the 2000 they had to, according to you guys, invent FTL travel to build infrastructure and tools to even come close to what we now have - cement, electricity, computers, etc.

Second, while it is true they had a "2000-year head start" it means next to nothing without a record of the 2000-year knowledge. We all are products of 2000 (or even 6000, if you like) years of knowledge in a fully-developed society with a public school system that makes the collected knowledge of the past 6000 years available to all of us. Yet none of could, from scratch, produce electricity, build a car, engineer a computer, mine ore, heck probably even plant some edible seeds, grow them, and make bread.

The knowledge we have is so vast that we specialize to an incredible degree (you how to build/do one of a million pieces that go towards creating something, never the whole thing) and thus we are ignorant of 99.9% of the knowledge that is out there. We, just like the people on Novus, would have to re-discover how to make steel, how to grow food, how to build mine shafts, windmills, irrigation systems, etc. Also most of the crew of Destiny were either civilians or scientists that posses none of the skills I mentioned.

Yes, they had a head start in the form of knowing that a windmill is a wind-powered building that can turn seeds into flour or that steel is created my melting iron ore at really high temperatures. But that just saves them the "trial and error" process of trying to do things that won't work. But just the knowledge that windmills exist and what their function is and maybe some obscure information about their inner workings do not empower me to build one even if I had all the tools and the time in the world.

I think it is fairly realistic to think that even with this head start a society would get to only a few hundred years farther along than we are now in 2000 years. They were more advanced than us, because they were capable of building ships that could transport them to far-off planets, which is something that is still hundreds of years away from us. So the argument could be made that the people of Novus covered our 6000 years of "evolution" in 2000 years, which is impressive.

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-- Colonel Tigh

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Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

marco1475 wrote:
Vana wrote:
sean14 wrote:

First of all we don't know how advance they were, so we don't know what they could or couldn't predict.

Dude, are you serious? We do know that they were as advanced as us (at least mentally) when they arrived. Meaning that they had a 2000 year head start, which I think someone has already mentioned.

With that fact (and our visual knowledge of their city), they most likely would've had the ability to predict a black hole. As well as being able to make an FTL drive, but apparently they didn't.

I think you guys are overestimating the usable knowledge the crew of the Destiny had when they arrived on Novus. They made it pretty clear that they had no books or recordings and only very few possessions.

So first of all you waste several hundred years of the 2000 they had to, according to you guys, invent FTL travel to build infrastructure and tools to even come close to what we now have - cement, electricity, computers, etc.

Second, while it is true they had a "2000-year head start" it means next to nothing without a record of the 2000-year knowledge. We all are products of 2000 (or even 6000, if you like) years of knowledge in a fully-developed society with a public school system that makes the collected knowledge of the past 6000 years available to all of us. Yet none of could, from scratch, produce electricity, build a car, engineer a computer, mine ore, heck probably even plant some edible seeds, grow them, and make bread.

The knowledge we have is so vast that we specialize to an incredible degree (you how to build/do one of a million pieces that go towards creating something, never the whole thing) and thus we are ignorant of 99.9% of the knowledge that is out there. We, just like the people on Novus, would have to re-discover how to make steel, how to grow food, how to build mine shafts, windmills, irrigation systems, etc. Also most of the crew of Destiny were either civilians or scientists that posses none of the skills I mentioned.

Yes, they had a head start in the form of knowing that a windmill is a wind-powered building that can turn seeds into flour or that steel is created my melting iron ore at really high temperatures. But that just saves them the "trial and error" process of trying to do things that won't work. But just the knowledge that windmills exist and what their function is and maybe some obscure information about their inner workings do not empower me to build one even if I had all the tools and the time in the world.

I think it is fairly realistic to think that even with this head start a society would get to only a few hundred years farther along than we are now in 2000 years. They were more advanced than us, because they were capable of building ships that could transport them to far-off planets, which is something that is still hundreds of years away from us. So the argument could be made that the people of Novus covered our 6000 years of "evolution" in 2000 years, which is impressive.

Here i am to agree with you.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:
marco1475 wrote:
Vana wrote:

Dude, are you serious? We do know that they were as advanced as us (at least mentally) when they arrived. Meaning that they had a 2000 year head start, which I think someone has already mentioned.

With that fact (and our visual knowledge of their city), they most likely would've had the ability to predict a black hole. As well as being able to make an FTL drive, but apparently they didn't.

I think you guys are overestimating the usable knowledge the crew of the Destiny had when they arrived on Novus. They made it pretty clear that they had no books or recordings and only very few possessions.

So first of all you waste several hundred years of the 2000 they had to, according to you guys, invent FTL travel to build infrastructure and tools to even come close to what we now have - cement, electricity, computers, etc.

Second, while it is true they had a "2000-year head start" it means next to nothing without a record of the 2000-year knowledge. We all are products of 2000 (or even 6000, if you like) years of knowledge in a fully-developed society with a public school system that makes the collected knowledge of the past 6000 years available to all of us. Yet none of could, from scratch, produce electricity, build a car, engineer a computer, mine ore, heck probably even plant some edible seeds, grow them, and make bread.

The knowledge we have is so vast that we specialize to an incredible degree (you how to build/do one of a million pieces that go towards creating something, never the whole thing) and thus we are ignorant of 99.9% of the knowledge that is out there. We, just like the people on Novus, would have to re-discover how to make steel, how to grow food, how to build mine shafts, windmills, irrigation systems, etc. Also most of the crew of Destiny were either civilians or scientists that posses none of the skills I mentioned.

Yes, they had a head start in the form of knowing that a windmill is a wind-powered building that can turn seeds into flour or that steel is created my melting iron ore at really high temperatures. But that just saves them the "trial and error" process of trying to do things that won't work. But just the knowledge that windmills exist and what their function is and maybe some obscure information about their inner workings do not empower me to build one even if I had all the tools and the time in the world.

I think it is fairly realistic to think that even with this head start a society would get to only a few hundred years farther along than we are now in 2000 years. They were more advanced than us, because they were capable of building ships that could transport them to far-off planets, which is something that is still hundreds of years away from us. So the argument could be made that the people of Novus covered our 6000 years of "evolution" in 2000 years, which is impressive.

Here i am to agree with you.

Indeed - and they also had a drawback, not the middle ages but two countries with a different understanding how things should work. This could be equivalent to a cold war. On the other hand this could also speed up things.
Nonetheless building interstellar ships in 2000 years with nothing more than maybe 50 people and their bare hands is impressive but possible I think. Assumed the planet is like earth of course and has enough shelter and raw materials. What brings us back to the black hole entering their system which causes many force majeure.

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Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

BlackBox wrote:

Indeed - and they also had a drawback, not the middle ages but two countries with a different understanding how things should work. This could be equivalent to a cold war. On the other hand this could also speed up things.

I'd forgotten about that. Maybe they went down the weapons line, pushing the travel aside? But they did then have 30 odd years of "togetherness" to sort out a solution.

I still think there's going to be a link with this lot as those remote control space ships... The times don't exactly work out though, as those weird looking aliens said that the races that created those ships destroyed each other, and they'd been in stasis or something, so that would be longer than the 30 years since the people they found on the planet left Novus...
I'm kind of still hoping for that though. Would be cool that the ships that are attacking them were created by them (abet by their descendants)...

BlackBox wrote:

What brings us back to the black hole entering their system which causes many force majeure.

Eh?

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Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:
BlackBox wrote:

What brings us back to the black hole entering their system which causes many force majeure.

Eh?

I mean - cmon. A black hole is a major thing. Just imagine how fragile earth is, when we have some minor solar flares we get heavy weather disturbances or a weird season climate. So multiply that with a million and you can imagine how things change on a planet wink
It's not like "Oh look - there is a black hole - let's make plans for leaving the planet - we got many years of uninterupted planning ahead." tongue

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=f2f78bbc2ae515f1a55746f794066001