Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

poncherello wrote:

Atlantis, now Universe... wonder what new show they'll have next for the Stargate genre just so they can ruin it for us fans =p

First of all, Atlantis was great, much better that some of sg-1 seasons. And second, if you don't like the show, don't watch it, and don't bother the fans by writing stuff like the once above.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:
Halo2 wrote:
sean14 wrote:

you should also know that people on earth couldn't build ships on their own, at least not without the asgards help or goa'ulds technology

Mr. K. All, do tell how their descendents built the ships on Novus?

No, not really, but we are intelligent enough to assume that after 2000 years of research with rush's, Eli's, and the others knowledge the figured it out. Remember that they could pass on their knowledge with the kino's recording system.

They Didn't have Rush's Knowledge , Only Eli's and the other scientists which wasn't enough to built a space ship especially when they didn't have the tools to do so...
You can take the best minds on this earth ,put them on a deserted island and they won't be able to built you a spaceship....

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6336/neuserbar1.jpg
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=2eaef4368573d410af8aec9cef95ee25

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

XtazyMike wrote:

You can take the best minds on this earth ,put them on a deserted island and they won't be able to built you a spaceship....

But after 2000 years their thousands/millions of decendants have a society that has evolved to space travel. Considering they started with a quite a bit of knowledge (history, stargates, physics..) they had a good start even if/when they regressed some to survive. But 2000 years of research, and NOT going throught the Dark Ages that stopped our scientific research for hundreds of years, could easily have brought them enough knowledge to build interplanetary space craft.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

toidol wrote:
XtazyMike wrote:

You can take the best minds on this earth ,put them on a deserted island and they won't be able to built you a spaceship....

But after 2000 years their thousands/millions of decendants have a society that has evolved to space travel. Considering they started with a quite a bit of knowledge (history, stargates, physics..) they had a good start even if/when they regressed some to survive. But 2000 years of research, and NOT going throught the Dark Ages that stopped our scientific research for hundreds of years, could easily have brought them enough knowledge to build interplanetary space craft.

Passing down knowledge is pretty easy if you invented scripting and know how to make paper or something similar. And skipping the dark ages and all the religious crap (besides worshipping Rush as God lol) is a major science boost. But yes - 2000 years with nothing but the knowledge of now should give you more than a headstart to build something great. But for FTL I wouldn't be so sure. Even Hawking isn't sure about that, but yes this is Stargate theory but without any alien involvement wink
The only thing that bugs me alot is the whole instable world thing. 2000 years is nothing for a planet and if something is going wrong now it should have started way before 2000 years ago. So it would be very possible that a major earthquake (2012 style, not Fukushima style) wiped out all population.
But then again - this is just a 42 minute tv show episode tongue

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=f2f78bbc2ae515f1a55746f794066001

30 (edited by Halo2 2011-04-29 09:04:53)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

BlackBox wrote:
toidol wrote:
XtazyMike wrote:

You can take the best minds on this earth ,put them on a deserted island and they won't be able to built you a spaceship....

But after 2000 years their thousands/millions of decendants have a society that has evolved to space travel. Considering they started with a quite a bit of knowledge (history, stargates, physics..) they had a good start even if/when they regressed some to survive. But 2000 years of research, and NOT going throught the Dark Ages that stopped our scientific research for hundreds of years, could easily have brought them enough knowledge to build interplanetary space craft.

Passing down knowledge is pretty easy if you invented scripting and know how to make paper or something similar. And skipping the dark ages and all the religious crap (besides worshipping Rush as God lol) is a major science boost. But yes - 2000 years with nothing but the knowledge of now should give you more than a headstart to build something great. But for FTL I wouldn't be so sure. Even Hawking isn't sure about that, but yes this is Stargate theory but without any alien involvement wink
The only thing that bugs me alot is the whole instable world thing. 2000 years is nothing for a planet and if something is going wrong now it should have started way before 2000 years ago. So it would be very possible that a major earthquake (2012 style, not Fukushima style) wiped out all population.
But then again - this is just a 42 minute tv show episode tongue

And wouldn't they know the blackhole was there (I'm fair sure blackhole pull things towards them, and don't actually move, maybe wrong of course!) fairly early on, 800-1000 years after they arrived..? They had largish structures (the school for example) after about 65 years (Camile was the only one alive, so assuming she was in her late 20s, and below average medical care (due to the lack of medicines/TJ's (their only proper Dr) death) so she live to 85-90).

yikes
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=CurrentWatchlist&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1dhttp://next-episode.net/img/ne-link.pnghttp://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1d
big_smile

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:

I'm fair sure blackhole pull things towards them, and don't actually move, maybe wrong of course!

Yep - you're wrong there. A black hole is actually a weird star that imploded. But it moves as any other object in space. But it pulls (almost) anything in it especially photons/light. But you can see it very clearly in the sky - especially when it's that close, because it sucks in the light of the other stars - well that's why it's called a black hole, because you actually see a big black hole in the sky wink

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=f2f78bbc2ae515f1a55746f794066001

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

BlackBox wrote:
Halo2 wrote:

I'm fair sure blackhole pull things towards them, and don't actually move, maybe wrong of course!

Yep - you're wrong there. A black hole is actually a weird star that imploded. But it moves as any other object in space. But it pulls (almost) anything in it especially photons/light. But you can see it very clearly in the sky - especially when it's that close, because it sucks in the light of the other stars - well that's why it's called a black hole, because you actually see a big black hole in the sky wink

Yes, obviosuly everything is space is moving, but they said the black hole entered the solar system, but surely this would be the blackhole pulled the solar system towards it.
(By the way you actually can't see a blackhole, as it absorbs all light, what you actually see is the light on the event horizon.)

yikes
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=CurrentWatchlist&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1dhttp://next-episode.net/img/ne-link.pnghttp://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1d
big_smile

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:

Yes, obviosuly everything is space is moving, but they said the black hole entered the solar system, but surely this would be the blackhole pulled the solar system towards it.

Hmm - actually no. If you have two objects (stones/planets/galaxies) they actually pull each other. It's just depending on the mass. Of course if you take a black hole and a stone the effect of the stone pulling the black hole is much lesser, but if you take a black hole and a solar system there is a mutual reaction.

Halo2 wrote:

(By the way you actually can't see a blackhole, as it absorbs all light, what you actually see is the light on the event horizon.)

Well - as I said - you can see a black hole as you can see the absence of light. The event horizon is more like the distance from the black hole center where the light reaches the point of no return. Also the a black hole causes a space warp, which bends the light of the surrounding stars, so that you can see it moving like a lense over the sky, with a black hole in the middle.

Here is a nice explanation and animation that should clearify things wink

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=f2f78bbc2ae515f1a55746f794066001

34 (edited by Halo2 2011-04-29 10:46:12)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

BlackBox wrote:
Halo2 wrote:

Yes, obviosuly everything is space is moving, but they said the black hole entered the solar system, but surely this would be the blackhole pulled the solar system towards it.

Hmm - actually no. If you have two objects (stones/planets/galaxies) they actually pull each other. It's just depending on the mass. Of course if you take a black hole and a stone the effect of the stone pulling the black hole is much lesser, but if you take a black hole and a solar system there is a mutual reaction.

That's the thing, blackholes have a huge mass (millions/billions of solar masses (ie, million/billion times the mass of the sun)), so for a solar system it would be like a stone (more a planet) to a blackhole...
(Obviously the blackhole is moving along with the galaxy.)

Anyway, the fact remains they would have know about the blackhole pretty early, earthquakes or not, so they had at least 800+ years to develop a solution.
I do agree with what you said about FTL not being a possibility.

yikes
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=CurrentWatchlist&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1dhttp://next-episode.net/img/ne-link.pnghttp://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1d
big_smile

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

And they didn't have FTL ships. Only slower, interplanetary, ships. That's why the escaped people from the planet wouldn't arrive at the destination for another 200 years and Destiny could have gone there in a week.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

toidol wrote:

And they didn't have FTL ships. Only slower, interplanetary, ships.

The debate is about why didn't they have any... wink

yikes
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=CurrentWatchlist&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1dhttp://next-episode.net/img/ne-link.pnghttp://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1d
big_smile

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:
toidol wrote:

And they didn't have FTL ships. Only slower, interplanetary, ships.

The debate is about why didn't they have any... wink

Indeed wink

Halo2 wrote:

Obviously the blackhole is moving along with the galaxy.

Actually the theory is that every galaxy has a black hole in the very middle of itself. And the only way for a black hole on it's own would be if it already sucked in the whole galaxy. But that might be too much and the black hole would have rather exploded in the process and the cycle starts all over again.

This (w)hole discussion reminds me how much I like this (The Big Bang) theory and how poorly it is treated in the tv-shows smile

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=f2f78bbc2ae515f1a55746f794066001

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

Halo2 wrote:
toidol wrote:

And they didn't have FTL ships. Only slower, interplanetary, ships.

The debate is about why didn't they have any... wink

Oh.. hmm sorry..

In that case.. They're smart just not FTL-smart!  tongue

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

You guys are talking about FTL like it's a simple thing (for those guys that were on Destiny) you forget that:
1. Even Rush had very limited understanding on FTL.
2. The Goa'uld, The Asgards (in both galaxies), The Replicators (in both galaxies) and the Wraith didn't have FTL and they were tens of thousands of years ahead of human race in technology.
3. even the ancients that were in Atlantis didn't have FTL - only sub space travel and a failed experiment on warp (or something like that) that Mckay "fixed" on the last episode.
4. Until dialing the 9th chevron , they didn't even know that there are ships traveling at FTL speed and that you can gate to them while they are in FTL.
5. even If you pass the information - the one that receives it needs to be exceptionally smart to understand it and further evolve it and without proper tools , it's hard to pass the info onwards...

Well , that's my opinion anyways , I think that achieving space travel in 2000 years when you had nothing to start with is very nice...

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6336/neuserbar1.jpg
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=2eaef4368573d410af8aec9cef95ee25

40 (edited by Halo2 2011-04-29 13:35:07)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

XtazyMike wrote:

2. The Goa'uld, The Asgards (in both galaxies), The Replicators (in both galaxies) and the Wraith didn't have FTL and they were tens of thousands of years ahead of human race in technology.
3. even the ancients that were in Atlantis didn't have FTL - only sub space travel and a failed experiment on warp (or something like that) that Mckay "fixed" on the last episode.

They did, hyperdrives... (EDIT: The Wormhole drive thing Mckay fixed btw smile)

XtazyMike wrote:

4. Until dialing the 9th chevron , they didn't even know that there are ships traveling at FTL speed and that you can gate to them while they are in FTL.

I thought it drops out of FTL to connect to make a connection...?

XtazyMike wrote:

Well , that's my opinion anyways , I think that achieving space travel in 2000 years when you had nothing to start with is very nice...

++

yikes
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=CurrentWatchlist&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1dhttp://next-episode.net/img/ne-link.pnghttp://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1d
big_smile

41 (edited by XtazyMike 2011-04-29 13:44:55)

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

hyperdrive is not FTL - FTL is Faster Than Light Speed while hyperdrive is traveling in sub space at light speed or less

and if I'm not mistaken , when they first gated to Destiny , it was still at FTL - she drops from FTL when It's near planets...

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6336/neuserbar1.jpg
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=2eaef4368573d410af8aec9cef95ee25

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

XtazyMike wrote:

hyperdrive is not FTL - FTL is Faster Than Light Speed while hyperdrive is traveling in sub space at light speed or less

Ah OK, I meant that they all had forms of some interstellar travel. Ie getting from one place to the other faster than light...
On a side note, I imagine that Hyperspace is better than FTL too, otherwise we would have seen it greater use throughout the Milky Way and Pegasus...

XtazyMike wrote:

if I'm not mistaken , when they first gated to Destiny , it was still at FTL - she drops from FTL when It's near planets...

I haven't got it here to watch, this could be the case. At least to gate to Earth they are not in FTL (on the edge of a star).

yikes
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=CurrentWatchlist&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1dhttp://next-episode.net/img/ne-link.pnghttp://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1d
big_smile

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

well , I checked at stargate wiki and about the drives and FTL , it was never clear how the ship travels at FTL speed but it says that they work on similar concept but hyperdrive travel requires a ship opening a sub space window in order to travel.
In fact , it could be that FTL is older version to hyperdrive travel while the stardrive (that is what Mckay fixed) is the most powerful drive (I excluded sub space engines as they are irrelevant)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6336/neuserbar1.jpg
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=2eaef4368573d410af8aec9cef95ee25

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

The level on nerdiness in here is just endearing.  wink

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

toidol wrote:

The level on nerdiness in here is just endearing.  wink

Indeed (saying it in the voice of Teal'c  lol  lol )

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6336/neuserbar1.jpg
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=2eaef4368573d410af8aec9cef95ee25

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

XtazyMike wrote:
toidol wrote:

The level on nerdiness in here is just endearing.  wink

Indeed (saying it in the voice of Teal'c  lol  lol )

ROFL - Indeed lol

http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=f2f78bbc2ae515f1a55746f794066001

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

XtazyMike wrote:

well , I checked at stargate wiki and about the drives and FTL , it was never clear how the ship travels at FTL speed but it says that they work on similar concept but hyperdrive travel requires a ship opening a sub space window in order to travel.
In fact , it could be that FTL is older version to hyperdrive travel while the stardrive (that is what Mckay fixed) is the most powerful drive

You just don't understand how wrong you are, FTL is any matter or information that travels faster than the speed of light, so by that definition, hyperdrive, is FTL. So the Asgards, the goaul'd, the Ori, the Furling, the Nox, the ancients, the replicator (build by the ancients) and i can keep going naming razes, all had FTL travel. Another fact is that wormholes (the gates) are also FTL. so when you talked about the ancients not having FTL you really got it wrong.

XtazyMike wrote:

(I excluded sub space engines as they are irrelevant)

sub space engines, such as sub space communications are FTL, i think you were referring to sub-light engines. 

XtazyMike wrote:

4. Until dialing the 9th chevron , they didn't even know that there are ships traveling at FTL speed and that you can gate to them while they are in FTL.

i believe that for what i explained to you above is pretty obvious they did know FTL traveling ships existed, they did not know you could dial in to them while being in hyperspace.

And in case you are going to say that FTL is achievable by non sub-space travel, the on going theory nowadays says that if you reach the speed of light without being in sub-space, the matter disintegrates.

Halo2 wrote:

Anyway, the fact remains they would have know about the blackhole pretty early, earthquakes or not, so they had at least 800+ years to develop a solution.
I do agree with what you said about FTL not being a possibility.

In other matter, they did see the black hole coming thats why they left, they came up with a solution in time. They just exploited their time on the planet as much as the could.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:
poncherello wrote:

Atlantis, now Universe... wonder what new show they'll have next for the Stargate genre just so they can ruin it for us fans =p

First of all, Atlantis was great, much better that some of sg-1 seasons. And second, if you don't like the show, don't watch it, and don't bother the fans by writing stuff like the once above.


You kinda got it wrong, Atlantis and SGU are shows that i really liked.  I was part of the Tayla Haters club on this forum for crying out loud ;-).... but our hate for tayla might have gotten too far. 

Atlantis, they kinda killed it for me when they got rid of Dr. Weir and this cancellation for SGU and now the whole stargate franchise is crappy.

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

sean14 wrote:
XtazyMike wrote:

well , I checked at stargate wiki and about the drives and FTL , it was never clear how the ship travels at FTL speed but it says that they work on similar concept but hyperdrive travel requires a ship opening a sub space window in order to travel.
In fact , it could be that FTL is older version to hyperdrive travel while the stardrive (that is what Mckay fixed) is the most powerful drive

You just don't understand how wrong you are, FTL is any matter or information that travels faster than the speed of light, so by that definition, hyperdrive, is FTL. So the Asgards, the goaul'd, the Ori, the Furling, the Nox, the ancients, the replicator (build by the ancients) and i can keep going naming razes, all had FTL travel. Another fact is that wormholes (the gates) are also FTL. so when you talked about the ancients not having FTL you really got it wrong.

Ah, Mr. K. All, I believe he is talking about the difference between Hyperdrive and FTL drive. As mentioned earlier, we're all well aware (even more so after you're informative post) that they are both types of FTL travel. It seems that only the Ancients (and subsequently maybe the Ori) had the FTL drive technology.

sean14 wrote:
XtazyMike wrote:

4. Until dialing the 9th chevron , they didn't even know that there are ships traveling at FTL speed and that you can gate to them while they are in FTL.

i believe that for what i explained to you above is pretty obvious they did know FTL traveling ships existed

They knew that FTL travel existed, but they didn't know about Destiny's FTL drive. It's a completely different form of interstellar travel compared to that of Hyperdrive, which seems to be promintent (and have superseded FTL) in most of the known galaxies.

sean14 wrote:

they did not know you could dial in to them while being in hyperspace.

You are wrong. Destiny isn't in Hyperspace as it doesn't have a Hyperdrive, it has a FTL drive!

sean14 wrote:
Halo2 wrote:

Anyway, the fact remains they would have know about the blackhole pretty early, earthquakes or not, so they had at least 800+ years to develop a solution.
I do agree with what you said about FTL not being a possibility.

In other matter, they did see the black hole coming thats why they left, they came up with a solution in time. They just exploited their time on the planet as much as the could.

They clearly didn't otherwise they would have moved the gate, and/or built ships with FTL abilities.

yikes
http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=CurrentWatchlist&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1dhttp://next-episode.net/img/ne-link.pnghttp://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=c7a3e8c361aa2596859d8df3f4f10c1d
big_smile

Re: 2x18 - Epilogue

XtazyMike wrote:

and if I'm not mistaken , when they first gated to Destiny , it was still at FTL - she drops from FTL when It's near planets...

No, the ship drops out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJp59o72d8w

(Man, that opening scene is so good)