Topic: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
since the cancellation of so many shows SGU actually feels like a new show.
my god how i actually missed it.
i'm not saiyng i'm a fan ot this show, but WE HAVE NO FREAKIN SCI-FI any more.

and i'm pissed.


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why ohh why are there no sci-fi shows any more?

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

If the writers hadn't been so lazy, and every episode was as awesome as that one it would NEVER have been canceled in the first place!!

Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

Agreed.  Although most (not all) were pretty good.

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

The problem  with SGU, and (i guess) the reason for cancellation, was that the first season was 100% total crap. No matter what some of the fans, and the writers, said, it was just horrible. The portion of scifi-viewers that wants to watch shows like that, was just to small. If you gonna write scifi, you have to write for the scifi-crowd. Not just a little part of that crowd. That small part of the crowd that just as well could watch any other soap-opera btw.

Season two however, is a completely different story. I actually enjoy most of it, and i get the impression that many others do too. People who like scifi, likes stuff like when you find ancient space-ships in the middle of nowhere, meeting aliens, finding mysterys and scientific problems to solve, space battles, exploration and things like that. We dont like lesbian lovestorys and domestic drama and reality-tv-bickering, sex, betrayal, babys, infidelity, emotional problems, pwer-struggles and so on like the first season was about. It was really bad as scifi, and it wasnt even good drama.

It doesnt matter which of those that classify as "real" scifi, thats just the way it is. The online-debate in season one was very much about if this was real scifi or not. That is not a relevant question.

Too bad they came to their senses too late. This show could have been something really great, especially with everything new they included in season 2. Even the characters have become more interesting, and likable. And they have started workning together. Now i want more exploration, more aliens, more interesting science-mysteries and more everything. In season one, i wanted less of everything.

That was my point of view, on this subject.

Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

I loved the way they made season 1! Not everything has to be all action and new aliens all the time. Two of my friends who didn't like sci-fi that much though SGU was really good for a sci-fi show. This show is more about human relations, and I like it! No point in making a second version of SG-1.

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

dofus wrote:

We dont like lesbian lovestorys

what is wrong with you  tongue

Vana wrote:

This show is more about human relations, and I like it! No point in making a second version of SG-1.

let humans stay in dramas. sci-fi is not for it.

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

imo

SGU = BSG - cylons - likable charcters + more soap-opera

in season 1 there were only a few really good episodes, can't say about season 2, coz im not up to date there

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

Vana wrote:

I loved the way they made season 1! Not everything has to be all action and new aliens all the time. Two of my friends who didn't like sci-fi that much though SGU was really good for a sci-fi show. This show is more about human relations, and I like it! No point in making a second version of SG-1.

Yeah, some people probably liked it but i didnt. I think the thing is just what you said, that some of your friends that dont like scifi that much, liked SGU. I think that the crowd that likes drama in a scifi-setting, are far less than the crowd that likes "regular" scifi. (whatever the definition is)

Anyway, thats my theory of why it was cancelled, your crowd is just too small smile

Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

GodZionu wrote:
dofus wrote:

We dont like lesbian lovestorys

what is wrong with you  tongue

There is probably many things wrong with me smile

But more seriously, i actually dont care how the people (girls) in a tv-show looks, and i dont care for any "sexy" content either. Partly because i just dont care, dont find it interesting but also because "sexy" content often seems like a cheap replacement for actual storywriting, and a cheap way to draw viewers. Not just sex, shows and movies can also try to rely on excessive violence, cursing, gross-out gags, drug-use instead of actual good writing. Most of modern "comedys" often seems to rely on all of those mentioned above, instead of actual funny writing. Compare Beverly Hills Cop with any 00-comedy. In BHC there was no sex, no drugs, moderate cursing, moderate violence and no gross-out-gags, still it was 100X better. Just my personal opinion, not trying to bash on anyone who likes all the "sexy" content. smile

Also, i always write way to much on the interweb when im let loose on a keyboard and english is not my first language so its probably not grammatically correct, and i completey ignore all the ' ` <- those things because i never learned to use them correctly. So if any or all of this information was useless, fell free to disregard it. smile

10 (edited by Spyder23 2011-03-09 18:09:48)

Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

dofus wrote:
GodZionu wrote:
dofus wrote:

We dont like lesbian lovestorys

what is wrong with you  tongue

There is probably many things wrong with me smile

But more seriously, i actually dont care how the people (girls) in a tv-show looks, and i dont care for any "sexy" content either. Partly because i just dont care, dont find it interesting but also because "sexy" content often seems like a cheap replacement for actual storywriting, and a cheap way to draw viewers. Not just sex, shows and movies can also try to rely on excessive violence, cursing, gross-out gags, drug-use instead of actual good writing. Most of modern "comedys" often seems to rely on all of those mentioned above, instead of actual funny writing. Compare Beverly Hills Cop with any 00-comedy. In BHC there was no sex, no drugs, moderate cursing, moderate violence and no gross-out-gags, still it was 100X better. Just my personal opinion, not trying to bash on anyone who likes all the "sexy" content. smile

Everyone likes that , dude .

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

Spyder23 wrote:

Everyone likes that , dude .

Then i guess my crowd is a crowd of one smile

Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

dofus wrote:
Vana wrote:

I loved the way they made season 1! Not everything has to be all action and new aliens all the time. Two of my friends who didn't like sci-fi that much though SGU was really good for a sci-fi show. This show is more about human relations, and I like it! No point in making a second version of SG-1.

Yeah, some people probably liked it but i didnt. I think the thing is just what you said, that some of your friends that dont like scifi that much, liked SGU. I think that the crowd that likes drama in a scifi-setting, are far less than the crowd that likes "regular" scifi. (whatever the definition is)

Anyway, thats my theory of why it was cancelled, your crowd is just too small smile

Yeah, you are probably right on that one! It's not that I don't like all of the other series - 'cos I do, I really love them - but somehow this one really does it for me (an accidentally to my bf also, luckily).

It's a shame it got cancelled, anyhow.

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

I couldn't disagree more with you, dofus.

dofus wrote:

The portion of scifi-viewers that wants to watch shows like that, was just to small. If you gonna write scifi, you have to write for the scifi-crowd. Not just a little part of that crowd. That small part of the crowd that just as well could watch any other soap-opera btw.
[..]
We dont like lesbian lovestorys and domestic drama and reality-tv-bickering, sex, betrayal, babys, infidelity, emotional problems, pwer-struggles and so on like the first season was about.

By this logic Firefly and Battlestar Galactica would be the lowest-rated and worst sci-fi shows ever. Battlestar Galactica was mostly about "domestic drama, sex, betrayal, infidelity, emotional problems, power struggles and so on." There was very little of exploration, no aliens and it even relied heavily on religion to propel its stories forward. And Firefly was anything but a show written for the "mainstream" sci-fi fan - a western crossed with sci-fi, with Chinese as the universe's dominant language?

What you are describing is bad sci-fi that would be no more successful than Stargate Universe has been. What you are describing is Star Trek-like sci-fi that was popular in the 90s and is still good, but has been surpassed by higher quality sci-fi. There is a very good reason why Star Trek Enterprise got cancelled because of small ratings.

This is not to say that Stargate Universe was good sci-fi. It had major issues, mostly because it didn't know which way to go - gritty, realistic sci-fi a la Battlestar Galactica, showing humanity's darker side with the power struggles and necessities of bare survival, or touchy-feely aliens and exploration sci-fi like the rest of the Stargate shows. Because it tried to balance between these very different "genres" it did neither well and the grittiness scared away the loyal Stargate fanbase and the benevolent aliens were too much to stomach for the "realistic sci-fi" crowd.

In the end the show did find its path (somewhere very close to the gritty Battlestar Galactica feel, IMHO), but it was too late. Some of the episodes were good, especially the few first ones (Air, Water) and the "time travel" episode (with the keynote and all of them dying on that planet), and yes the newest one was great too. But all in all the show was just made up of parts that don't fit together and as such never found a large enough audience. Bummer.

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

And not just that, but having a gritty, "realistic" BSG-esque Sci-Fi has two basic requirements : An interesting story arc (That only arose in Season 2), and decent characters (Rush is the only good one).

A little annoying that Chloe just went back to normal before they got much mileage out of the transformation. A long period of angst, a quick burst of awesome, then mostly-reset.

Space battles are always enjoyable though; overall this was a good episode for that alone.

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

9thRequiem wrote:

A little annoying that Chloe just went back to normal before they got much mileage out of the transformation. A long period of angst, a quick burst of awesome, then mostly-reset.

I don't think she did, there was something about the look on Rush's face that made me think otherwise!

yikes
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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

in my opinion the main problem with SGU was not the fact that it was based on more "drama" like storywriting, the problem is that it was bad drama. it could have been great. like BSG was. But the characters was boring and unlikable. the interacction between them was dull and the character development was almost non existent.

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Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

marco1475 wrote:

By this logic Firefly and Battlestar Galactica would be the lowest-rated and worst sci-fi shows ever. Battlestar Galactica was mostly about "domestic drama, sex, betrayal, infidelity, emotional problems, power struggles and so on." There was very little of exploration, no aliens and it even relied heavily on religion to propel its stories forward. And Firefly was anything but a show written for the "mainstream" sci-fi fan - a western crossed with sci-fi, with Chinese as the universe's dominant language?

I dont think that Firefly and Battlestar Galactica had anything in common either. Firefly had Aliens, exploration, traveling, mysteries, techystuff and everything we need. BSG had nothing of the kind, and i personally thought that BSG was crap and didnt watch it, just as the first season of SGU. Firefly on the other hand, i really liked. So for me, there is a huge difference. However, i do see the similarities between BSG and SGU. and, SGU was probably written trying to grab the BSG-viewers. BSG had ended when SGU started if i remember correctly? 

What you are describing is bad sci-fi that would be no more successful than Stargate Universe has been. What you are describing is Star Trek-like sci-fi that was popular in the 90s and is still good, but has been surpassed by higher quality sci-fi. There is a very good reason why Star Trek Enterprise got cancelled because of small ratings.

Personally i probably prefer "bad scifi" by your definition. Star Trek (Voyager, Enterprise), Farscape, Firefly, SG1, SGA, even Andromeda and what else there is was fun to watch. I actually dont think ANY kind of scifi has "enough" viewers, BSG didnt have good ratings either. But i do think that the fans of "bad scifi" outnumbers the fan of "good scifi" by your definition. There are no BSG-nerds and conventions out there as far as i know. also, there are differences between individual shows. Later seasons of SG1 and SGA were actually weaker written than the earlier, so the viewers dropped. That doesnt mean they stopped liking "bad scifi", just that the current "bad scifi", was too bad "bad scifi." smile

This is not to say that Stargate Universe was good sci-fi. It had major issues, mostly because it didn't know which way to go - gritty, realistic sci-fi a la Battlestar Galactica, showing humanity's darker side with the power struggles and necessities of bare survival, or touchy-feely aliens and exploration sci-fi like the rest of the Stargate shows. Because it tried to balance between these very different "genres" it did neither well and the grittiness scared away the loyal Stargate fanbase and the benevolent aliens were too much to stomach for the "realistic sci-fi" crowd.

In the end the show did find its path (somewhere very close to the gritty Battlestar Galactica feel, IMHO), but it was too late. Some of the episodes were good, especially the few first ones (Air, Water) and the "time travel" episode (with the keynote and all of them dying on that planet), and yes the newest one was great too. But all in all the show was just made up of parts that don't fit together and as such never found a large enough audience. Bummer.

This i completely agree on.

Re: 2x11 - Deliverance (2)

dofus wrote:

I dont think that Firefly and Battlestar Galactica had anything in common either. Firefly had Aliens, exploration, traveling, mysteries, techystuff and everything we need. BSG had nothing of the kind, and i personally thought that BSG was crap and didnt watch it, just as the first season of SGU. Firefly on the other hand, i really liked. So for me, there is a huge difference. However, i do see the similarities between BSG and SGU. and, SGU was probably written trying to grab the BSG-viewers. BSG had ended when SGU started if i remember correctly?

First of all, Firefly did not have aliens. Reavers were human, they were just people who went mad in space. And the "two by two, hands of blue" guys were just people too. Sorry to disappoint.

Second, I mentioned Firefly and BSG not because they are similar, but because both were examples of completely different sci-fi than came before, both of which did not fit your mainstream sci-fi definition (in my view there was no exploration or techy stuff in Firefly and we already established there were no aliens), yet both of which became cult classics and huge hits within the sci-fi community.

You are of course correct that SGU was SyFy's attempt to capitalize on the BSG audience (just like Caprica was) and the show was very much inspired by it. And as you correctly pointed out it was the show's downfall.

dofus wrote:

Personally i probably prefer "bad scifi" by your definition. Star Trek (Voyager, Enterprise), Farscape, Firefly, SG1, SGA, even Andromeda and what else there is was fun to watch. I actually dont think ANY kind of scifi has "enough" viewers, BSG didnt have good ratings either. But i do think that the fans of "bad scifi" outnumbers the fan of "good scifi" by your definition. There are no BSG-nerds and conventions out there as far as i know. also, there are differences between individual shows. Later seasons of SG1 and SGA were actually weaker written than the earlier, so the viewers dropped. That doesnt mean they stopped liking "bad scifi", just that the current "bad scifi", was too bad "bad scifi." smile

Ok, maybe calling it "bad" sci-fi was a bit harsh. What I meant was old-school sci-fi. SG-1, SGA, Andromeda I consider to be actually more like Star Wars, sci-fantasy because they all had a lot of benevolent aliens and technology that is explainable only by lots of hand waving and claiming that its origin is a species too advanced for our understanding. That is not sci-fi, really. I'll give you Farscape, but I would argue that the things that make it great are none of the properties you listed - more like the sexual undertones in everything, great characters, and flat out weirdness in doses never again achieved by mainstream TV.

I don't think that old-school sci-fi fans outnumber fans of BSG and Firefly. Yes, most new sci-fi shows have bad ratings, but that is the overall trend for any type of show. Also sci-fi has changed more deviously - hard-core sci-fi is frowned upon (IMHO due to the anti-science mood prevalent in the US for the past few years), but low-key sci-fi has found its way into mainstream TV shows. Lost, any superhero show (Smallville, Heroes), Flashforward, etc. are all more or less sci-fi shows. They just hide it well behind their character drama, but their premises are clearly sci-fi and they had huge ratings.

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