26 (edited by theConundrumm 2008-09-23 02:10:11)

Re: Fellow fans

now where did i put that firing squad....

don't get me wrong, i don't mind eureka, for what it is, as clearly 'they' do put some brain power into where the show is going, as opposed to most 'episode-of-the-week' shows where at the end of a season all you have left is 'caring about the characters', which at the end of the day... wgaf? [especially when they are such 2D, cardboard cut-outs... seriously, most shows today, you could just take the, say, 'sidekick' character out of one, drop into another and nobody would really notice...]

my main beef here is the shallowness of a show like Reaper, which was clearly a 'wow, what a cool idea... now we just need a story' concoction, which meandered and faltered from the beginning, and when they did get some sense of direction, they blew their wad within minutes [yes, i'm talking about that lame revolution "storyline"]... smallville [or the likes] i have no real problem with, as clearly there is a story to be told that has had some thought [or in Smallville's case, a history] behind it...

and really, it's not about 'liking' something more than the other... i love Supernatural, but there are other shows i'd crawl over it for [It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia would be hands down MY favourite show out there right now], that doesn't change the fact that Supernatural is one of the best written and plotted shows out there..

needless to say: looking forward to this season of Supernatural, will watch and enjoy the odd episode of Eureka and will continue to flame Reaper...

[/rant]

i'm going to eat your brains and gain your memories...

27

Re: Fellow fans

Ah see.... always sunny in Philadelphia:) one of the most wonderfully politically incorrect shows on earth....but I love it.

Hey btw theConundrumm in the SGA post you had a pic of an atlantis cake, was that yours? Pretty sweet!

28

Re: Fellow fans

sunny in philly... politically incorrect... i do not know what you mean... heheh... that show.. man, just when you think humanity has sunk to it's lowest... aye... love it...

and the Atlantis cake... mine... i wish... the pic was from the sga wrap party....pulled from joe m's blog

i'm going to eat your brains and gain your memories...

29

Re: Fellow fans

theConundrumm wrote:

and when you guys are ready to start a meaningful, and thought provoked dialogue in regards to SUPERNATURAL, somebody gently wake the bear instead of poking it...

a meaningful, thought provoked dialogue on the interweb... never going to happen lol

Guess that bear is in for a long hibernation....


In case you missed my point, I agreed that supernatural was a far superior show to the office etc etc

but I still reserve my right to gush about attractive women.

ok ok, I'll try and be a bit meaningful re supernatural.


I actually like the direction this ep took the show. They have hinted in past episodes that even though there were Demons, that didnt necessarily mean there was a God or Devil. In fact if I remember correctly the demon that was talking said neither of them had never been seen and they werent believed to exist by the demons.

It was a while ago though , and I could be mistaken. Anyone remember more clearly?

30

Re: Fellow fans

theConundrumm wrote:

ESPECIALLY Reaper.... seriously, if you want boring colour by numbers plotting, bland phoned in acting, tried and true cliche setups, lackluster production values, then sure, Reaper's your guy [oh but wait... she's soooo cute... bah]... but for fucks sake, get some, maybe just a little, perspective...

Supernatural is one of the best written and plotted shows out there..

So because you hate Reaper you think other people should hate it too?? I don't like being told to get 'maybe just a little perspective'. I agree the first half of season 1 of Reaper was pretty bad, but at the end of season the show had gotten really good. And seriously, you think Supernatural is one of the best written and plotted shows out there?? Now who needs just a little perspective. I loved this first episode of season 4, but the second half of season 2 and the first half of season 3 were very disappointing and poorly written. I think Supernatural is a great show (again), but there are many shows that have better writers than Supernatural. Eureka, Eli Stone, REAPER and NCIS for example..

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31 (edited by theConundrumm 2008-09-23 13:31:30)

Re: Fellow fans

Waylander wrote:
theConundrumm wrote:

ESPECIALLY Reaper.... seriously, if you want boring colour by numbers plotting, bland phoned in acting, tried and true cliche setups, lackluster production values, then sure, Reaper's your guy [oh but wait... she's soooo cute... bah]... but for fucks sake, get some, maybe just a little, perspective...

Supernatural is one of the best written and plotted shows out there..

So because you hate Reaper you think other people should hate it too?? I don't like being told to get 'maybe just a little perspective'. I agree the first half of season 1 of Reaper was pretty bad, but at the end of season the show had gotten really good. And seriously, you think Supernatural is one of the best written and plotted shows out there?? Now who needs just a little perspective. I loved this first episode of season 4, but the second half of season 2 and the first half of season 3 were very disappointing and poorly written. I think Supernatural is a great show (again), but there are many shows that have better writers than Supernatural. Eureka, Eli Stone, REAPER and NCIS for example..

no because i "hate" Reaper [a mighty bold assumption on your part there... i watched the whole season, i gave it a chance... i was just terribly disappointed] i think it should be not mentioned in a thread, started by a 'newcomer' who wants to talk about Supernatural. and yes, i do think Supernatural is one of the best written shows out there... but i tell you what is not of the best written things out there... a rant by me first thing in the morning... because, honestly, a few key words missing here and there, and no, i don't think i got my point across very well [it's 10:30pm here atm... juices are flowing nicely wink]... so in retrospect, what i was trying to convey is the way they keep raising the bar for themselves and never dipping back below it [well not too far anyways] the way some shows do. the sheer scale of the story they seems to be telling far eclipses anything else around atm... and the way they are achieving telling their story without resorting to tried and true plotting, character and plot inconsistencies to force a plot point [you hear me Heroes tongue], and other such things that detract from a thinking man's enjoyment of a tv show is something few shows in this genre can, or have pulled off...

so, go back, throw in the words consistent, and genre.... and i damn well stand by everything i said...

i'm going to eat your brains and gain your memories...

32

Re: Fellow fans

theConundrumm wrote:

no because i "hate" Reaper [a mighty bold assumption on your part there... i watched the whole season, i gave it a chance... i was just terribly disappointed] i think it should be not mentioned in a thread, started by a 'newcomer' who wants to talk about Supernatural. and yes, i do think Supernatural is one of the best written shows out there... but i tell you what is not of the best written things out there... a rant by me first thing in the morning... because, honestly, a few key words missing here and there, and no, i don't think i got my point across very well [it's 10:30pm here atm... juices are flowing nicely wink]... so in retrospect, what i was trying to convey is the way they keep raising the bar for themselves and never dipping back below it [well not too far anyways] the way some shows do. the sheer scale of the story they seems to be telling far eclipses anything else around atm... and the way they are achieving telling their story without resorting to tried and true plotting, character and plot inconsistencies to force a plot point [you hear me Heroes tongue], and other such things that detract from a thinking man's enjoyment of a tv show is something few shows in this genre can, or have pulled off...

so, go back, throw in the words consistent, and genre.... and i damn well stand by everything i said...

If you don't hate Reaper then I wonder how you feel about shows you do hate.. wink I have no problems with you saying how much you don't like Reaper, but when you tell people to 'get some, maybe just a little, perspective' that makes it personal. But, like you said, you wrote it first thing in the morning. So you're forgiven.. big_smile

I only said I liked Reaper better than Supernatural. Not much, but still better. I don't see anything wrong with that. It wasn't meant to cause this discussion. Besides, you did the same thing I did by saying, 'It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia would be hands down MY favourite show out there right now'. And there are more people talking about other shows than Supernatural in this thread..

There have been a couple of big inconsistencies in Supernatural. Sam first discovered he had powers many episodes ago (season 2?), but somehow he couldn't access those powers for many episodes after that, even in situations where he almost got killed. That really annoyed me. And what about all those souls that escaped from hell they were supposed to hunt down? Not much happening there anymore. This doesn't bother me because I didn't really like the direction they were going, but it IS inconsistent. It feels like the writers decided to go in a different direction..

Heroes is ok, but I'm still hoping it will get better. So far the writing has not impressed me at all. Especially in season 2..

There are very few shows with plot twists that really surprise me. Supernatural isn't one of them. It's a great show, but it doesn't require a whole lot of thinking imho.. wink But that's ok, because it's just a lot of fun to watch.. smile I felt like they didn't know where to go with the show in the second half of season 2 and the first half of season 3. The second half of last season was MUCH better and the first episode of this season was one of the best. My confidence in this show has almost completely been restored.. smile

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33

Re: Fellow fans

though i did throw you all in a barrel and start shooting, for which i do apologise, but if anybody should be getting defensive it's, well, i'm not going to name names, but i think it's pretty obvious, and i do apologise if i ruffled anybody else's feathers... it just grated me on two levels...

1/ that some dude went to the effort to start a thread, threw out an invite to discuss, and within the space of no time at all it turned into, well, what it did...

and 2/ being an atheist that was forced through a Christian education system some of the themes being touched upon in this show in regards to beliefs and how we perceive the nature of faith is something i could really sink my teeth into, and was somewhat disappointed when it turned into, well, what it did wink...

and my reference to IASIP was merely to illustrate that your favourite show and what you consider to be 'the best written and plotted' one needn't be the same show... which i feel was not acknowledged in the responses to my initial tirade, erm, post...

Sam not being able to access his 'powers' was addressed in the show wink as were what happened to all the escaped souls wink...

just because we weren't spoon feed the info, doesn't mean it wasn't there... sam and dean aren't the only hunters out there, and also Supernatural is written in 'real time', so in the however many month break we had betwix the s2 finale and the s3 premiere, same amount of time has passed for them as it has for us... wink, i mean sheesh, they could have chased after all those souls [100-200 iirc], armed themselves with a vacuum cleaner or somesuch and played the same plot week after week for 22 odd weeks, but hell, if you want that show, then you'll love Reaper wink...

currently 3:19am here... waaaay past bed time....

'nundrumm out wink

i'm going to eat your brains and gain your memories...

34

Re: Fellow fans

theConundrumm wrote:

Sam not being able to access his 'powers' was addressed in the show wink as were what happened to all the escaped souls wink...

just because we weren't spoon feed the info, doesn't mean it wasn't there... sam and dean aren't the only hunters out there, and also Supernatural is written in 'real time', so in the however many month break we had betwix the s2 finale and the s3 premiere, same amount of time has passed for them as it has for us... wink

But that's just an easy way for the writers to take the show in a different direction.. wink Supernatural doesn't have that many viewers, so it makes sense they did have to try something different to get the ratings up. If this show hadn't been on The CW it probably would have been cancelled a long time ago. I just hope The CW (which isn't doing well at all apparently) doesn't go under, so we can enjoy Supernatural for a few more seasons..

theConundrumm wrote:

i mean sheesh, they could have chased after all those souls [100-200 iirc], armed themselves with a vacuum cleaner or somesuch and played the same plot week after week for 22 odd weeks, but hell, if you want that show, then you'll love Reaper wink...

I know, I know. You love that show too, but you're just afraid to admit it.. big_smile

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35 (edited by xrnzaaas 2008-09-23 19:55:02)

Re: Fellow fans

Waylander wrote:

If this show hadn't been on The CW it probably would have been cancelled a long time ago. I just hope The CW (which isn't doing well at all apparently) doesn't go under, so we can enjoy Supernatural for a few more seasons..

I have to disagree... however it had a fairly slow start, because as you know for the first half of the 1st season it barely touched the main plot (hunting down the yellow eyed demon). I suspect it could have been cancelled very early (after a few eps) if this was Fox or NBC, but still SPN and Smallville are amongst most viewed CW shows. 4 million viewers may be a small number to some bigger stations, but it's a s**t load of viewers for CW. smile And I can only imagine how good it may have gotten with a bigger budget in the following years (and not the same one each year).

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36

Re: Fellow fans

Waylander wrote:

But that's just an easy way for the writers to take the show in a different direction.. wink Supernatural doesn't have that many viewers, so it makes sense they did have to try something different to get the ratings up. If this show hadn't been on The CW it probably would have been cancelled a long time ago. I just hope The CW (which isn't doing well at all apparently) doesn't go under, so we can enjoy Supernatural for a few more seasons..

i think you're wrong to call it a 'different direction', if anything the show has stayed true to it's core, without repeating itself or becoming tired...  different chapters, same book... what, you want they should keep telling the same story even after it has reached it's natural conclusion?... and i honestly can't see this change in direction of which you speak... the groundwork for the last season and what i can only assume we are seeing now was laid while telling the Yellow-Eyed Demon story... it's evolution baby... not rebooting or skewing as you would seemingly have us believe...

i'm going to eat your brains and gain your memories...

37

Re: Fellow fans

xrnzaaas wrote:

I suspect it could have been cancelled very early (after a few eps) if this was Fox or NBC, but still SPN and Smallville are amongst most viewed CW shows. 4 million viewers may be a small number to some bigger stations, but it's a s**t load of viewers for CW. smile

That's what I was trying to say. smile For The CW 4 million is a lot, but for some bigger stations that simply wouldn't have been acceptable. Fox would probably have cancelled Supernatural after half a season, like they have done with so many other great shows..

theConundrumm wrote:

i think you're wrong to call it a 'different direction', if anything the show has stayed true to it's core, without repeating itself or becoming tired...  different chapters, same book... what, you want they should keep telling the same story even after it has reached it's natural conclusion?... and i honestly can't see this change in direction of which you speak... the groundwork for the last season and what i can only assume we are seeing now was laid while telling the Yellow-Eyed Demon story... it's evolution baby... not rebooting or skewing as you would seemingly have us believe...

Sooner of later you're gonna have to stop taking everything I say so seriously. I'm not having anyone believe anything. It's just my opinion. Everyone can have their own opinion. To me it did feel the show was repeating itself and had become tired during the second half of season 2 and the first half of season 3.. But I think Supernatural is one of the best shows again (just like it was in season 1 and the first half of season 2), so I don't want to keep talking about the few things I didn't like about this show when there are so many things I do like now. I only mentioned the inconsistencies because of your initial rant, which made me respond the way I did. The show is great again and that's all that matters to me. At least we can agree on that..

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38 (edited by xrnzaaas 2008-09-24 00:15:46)

Re: Fellow fans

Waylander wrote:

That's what I was trying to say. smile For The CW 4 million is a lot, but for some bigger stations that simply wouldn't have been acceptable. Fox would probably have cancelled Supernatural after half a season, like they have done with so many other great shows..

Yes BUT if it would somehow survive the slow start, it could be much better than it is now. I know that money is not all you need for the show to be great but still... bigger budget could mean (for example) better ideas for the "war" in the 3rd season. smile And I don't think you should automatically assume that it would get ~4 million viewers everywhere else. I don't know much about CW but it seems that they somehow can't get a bigger audience. All their current shows (OTH, Gossip Girl and now 90210) average about 3-3,5 million viewers or less. It's not only about SPN not being attractive enough for the viewers. Oh, and there's one more thing - SPN & Smallville go against such giants as CSI, The Office or Grey's Anatomy so it only shows that CW can't (or won't) find a good time slot. I suspect that SPN could be as popular as Heroes or Lost (=at least twice as much viewers) if it was shown by a different station.

PS. My dream combo would be Lost & SPN on ABC instead of SPN & Smallville. smile From all the networks IMHO only ABC avoids cancelling shows early.

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39

Re: Fellow fans

xrnzaaas wrote:

Yes BUT if it would somehow survive the slow start, it could be much better than it is now. I know that money is not all you need for the show to be great but still... bigger budget could mean (for example) better ideas for the "war" in the 3rd season. smile And I don't think you should automatically assume that it would get ~4 million viewers everywhere else. I don't know much about CW but it seems that they somehow can't get a bigger audience. All their current shows (OTH, Gossip Girl and now 90210) average about 3-3,5 million viewers or less. It's not only about SPN not being attractive enough for the viewers. Oh, and there's one more thing - SPN & Smallville go against such giants as CSI, The Office or Grey's Anatomy so it only shows that CW can't (or won't) find a good time slot. I suspect that SPN could be as popular as Heroes or Lost (=at least twice as much viewers) if it was shown by a different station.

PS. My dream combo would be Lost & SPN on ABC instead of SPN & Smallville. smile From all the networks IMHO only ABC avoids cancelling shows early.

We will probably never know what Supernatural would be like if it had a bigger budget, but it could create more possibilities..
You're right, one shouldn't automatically assume it would get ~4 million viewers everywhere else. I doubt it would get twice as many viewers, but who knows.. smile
From Wikipedia: 'The CW is a joint venture between CBS Corporation, the former owners of UPN, and Warner Brothers. The name was derived from the first letter of the names of two of these corporations (CBS and Warner Brothers).' So it's not really a small network, though the name 'The CW' and the ratings may make it seem that way.. wink

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40 (edited by xrnzaaas 2008-09-26 22:42:37)

Re: Fellow fans

Wow! I mean... WOW!! 2nd episode was SO MUCH BETTER than the season premiere. They should have made a two-hour premiere instead of showing them separately and the effects would be stunning. Very intense episode, we finally know what they're going up against and it was good to see familiar faces, especially Meg.

PS. The only bad thing was once again Ruby. I sincerely hope she gets wacked soon (or goes back to a previous body wink), because I can't stand her.

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41

Re: Fellow fans

wow = understatement...

i'm going to eat your brains and gain your memories...

42

Re: Fellow fans

theConundrumm wrote:

wow = understatement...

Yeah I still dont understand why this show isnt bigger and more popular than it is

43

Re: Fellow fans

- - SPOILER - -

Just watched episode number 3. It was just perfect! It kind of made the whole story from begging to end a hell of a lot cooler. And the fact that Sam was of doing something secretive and possible evil was a really nice turn compared to the shows usual turns. Cant wait for number 4.

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44

Re: Fellow fans

Yet another episode where I couldn't stand Ruby. Thankfully she only got a few seconds. Besides that a great ep. smile

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45

Re: Fellow fans

Small tip - Lauren Cohan from Supernatural (Bela Talbot) is starring in the new CW series Valentine. smile Oh, and Autumn Reeser too. big_smile

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