51 (edited by TheFizza 2022-12-04 21:44:08)

Re: Wednesday

merc wrote:
TheFizza wrote:
merc wrote:
TheFizza wrote:

Just finished Wednesday, art is subjective, that being said I give this series 2.5 maybe 3 STARS out of 5 and this is mostly for the vibes/atmosphere because for a show that basically stole lines right out of the mouths of Film Noir detectives, Wednesday was an incredibly incompetent detective.

In fact that was possibly the most Scooby-Doo mystery I have ever seen on a very popular live-action TV series. I 100% knew exactly how it was going to end by the last few minuets of episode one. I called who the villain was, who the monster was... annnnd it was completely frustrating to see the main character, who they establish in the universe is being smart, acting so very clueless. There were a couple of times when I thought she was purposely being stupid, like it was all a ruse... however that was clearly me giving this series waaaaay too much credit neutral

I spent most of the series yelling at the screen things like, "that guys is clearly the monster you can even tell that from the CGI" and "she is clearly the evil 'dead' daughter, it could not be more obvious" hmm  There was even a time I laughed out loud at a line of VoiceOver from Wednesday about how could it possibly be the girl who we know died in a foreign country surrounded by strangers in a suspicious way lol lol lol lol  At which point I seriously considered if the series was secretly actually a straight-up comedy.

That all being as it was the ambience in the series was fantastic, the characterizations were good and the themes were followed through well… even if the mystery was so-so-so extremely pedestrian.


The things I loved  include Wednesday's goth dance in eps 3 is it at the Raven party and also her roomy character Enid who pulled some lovely expressions. And I loved the coroner scene where the doctor found one of the freezers doors open...I am not so concerned with the pedestrian story line. Unlike you I dont go into 2nd guessing things (now Stargirl eps 12?)

Nice, all good moments... thank you for sharing merc. And yeah, despite my criticism, I felt it was a decently enjoyable watch. Yes, the way I engage with a lot of the things I watch can be a little different than some, probably all those mysteries I read as a kid, but for whatever reason those aspects tripped me up but didn't turn me off.

in this show there are just not enough players to obfuscate matters - once Wednesday had decided who the two baddies were we knew she was wrong,so this is a mystery in name only.( now had Enid been the monster... a good reason she could not wolf out) And on top of this there is the principle that the obvious is never the case  I was never anygood anyway at  working out real mysteries...The only matter that came as a suprise is that I saw Christina Ricci, the original Wednesday in the credits and wondered who that was not having seen her for a very long time on screen and not as an adult, didnt know what she looked like now.

I am not sure  whst genre this should be classified under

HAHA... I felt the same way, I watched the whole series then saw her name in the end and was like, who was Ricci playing lol and when I realized what character she was I was like, no way?!?!

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=fe18e3ede310c4d0ddb3af64211e19ec

52 (edited by Rocky_Rock_Rockbottom 2022-12-05 06:53:43)

Re: Wednesday

2 episodes in and into it.

Enjoying the bleak cynicism of the main girl although she seems way too overconfident in her own seemingly innumerable abilities to be a real outcast.

My guess is Jnr /Snr high school teachers around the world are about to enter a new realm of hell with a welter of Wednesday wannabees suddenly unleashed upon them. All clad in black and pouting, sullen, insouciant and oh so very much more clever than silly old loser teacher.

53

Re: Wednesday

any one care to explain the opening shot of the reference to Nancy Reagan high school in eps 1. Was Reagan's school policy a disaster as seems to be suggested?

54

Re: Wednesday

can some please tell me what woke is apart from waking up as ususal

55

Re: Wednesday

sorry should have added an am a 64 year od white female living in australia thanks

56 (edited by g371 2022-12-05 20:03:45)

Re: Wednesday

dekelder wrote:

can some please tell me what woke is apart from waking up as ususal

Have you seen a small children screech in a supermarket toys isle? Woke is a sarcastic term which describes such problem solving approach by idiot adults, who are offended by everything, invent problems on a go, never stop virtue signaling and manifest their mental issues usually when nobody asked them and in inappropriate places. And by their idiocy they make the same problems, which they supposedly are trying to solve, worse. Like, for example, racism is bad and should be eliminated, but woke idiots fight racism with racism, for example, all BLM circus and alike. Or by placing it into movies and TV series, and by that crippling these stories and triggering a gag reflex to hearing anything about these problems (some of them are real problems). Same shit with a long list of other topics, which all together are covered by "woke". And for some fucking reason that has infested movies & TV series industry, before to avoid them all you needed to do is to stay away from Twitter big_smile

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woke

For example, woke injection in Wednesday is anything she says "condemning something for greater good", like for example some shit about women rights - because Wednesday by definition is a small, evil girl and gives zero fucks about all that, it's a personal woke touch from some writer big_smile She uses violence and revenge for problem solving, not woke virtue signaling and shaming into submission.

The original meaning of that woke was without the sarcastic addition, same as liberal meant something completely different 30 years ago.

And mortal enemies of wokies are radical conservatives. I see that fight as idiots vs. retards (btw, wokies has banned word retard as offensive to mentally challenged people - as I said, they are very good at inventing new problems from a thin air) big_smile

57 (edited by merc 2022-12-05 21:29:25)

Re: Wednesday

g371 wrote:

For example, woke injection in Wednesday is anything she says "condemning something for greater good", like for example some shit about women rights - because Wednesday by definition is a small, evil girl and gives zero fucks about all that, it's a personal woke touch from some writer big_smile She uses violence and revenge for problem solving, not woke virtue signaling and shaming into submission.

And there was I thinking the Adams Family with Wednesday's dark, morbid outlook, dated from the late 1930s when people were still asleep.

Spoiler

As for killing Laura I think she did she right thing

old and new
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/12/02/18/65153367-11492397-image-a-182_1670007263750.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/12/02/18/65179703-11492397-image-m-181_1670007257764.jpg

58

Re: Wednesday

dekelder wrote:

can some please tell me what woke is apart from waking up as ususal

"Woke" is a word that has no meaning in particular. It depends on who you ask.

Originally it meant something like "being aware of the small injustices happening around us all the time and trying not to be like that" (low-key racism being one such thing).

The word was later taken over by conservative discourse as a cover-all insult for anyone who wants to change how society works in favour of more inclusion. If used in this way, the word often refers to the cliché of people who try push certain words out of use, or are just generally trying a bit too hard to be inclusive and annoy those who don't want to be in the process.

The way the word is used here is really mostly just people noticing that the world moves on without them and digging in their heels in response. Every time a show does something that wouldn't have been done like that 20 years ago, it's perceived as complete deliberate propaganda and clearly a bad thing. It's really more an emotion than it is something factual.

Here a recent news article if you want a real-world example of how the word is used, or isn't.



The show itself was IMO alright, but also not all great. One aspect of the Addams in general is normally that they are always in near-complete control of any situation they are in, often obliviously so. Wednesday in particular, and without the oblivious part. The fact that they had to keep up the conflict in this show kinda wasted that premise...

Still pretty enjoyable overall.

59

Re: Wednesday

Rocky_Rock_Rockbottom wrote:

My guess is Jnr /Snr high school teachers around the world are about to enter a new realm of hell with a welter of Wednesday wannabees suddenly unleashed upon them. All clad in black and pouting, sullen, insouciant and oh so very much more clever than silly old loser teacher.

With the success this series seems to be enjoying, you're probably not wrong.

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=fe18e3ede310c4d0ddb3af64211e19ec

60

Re: Wednesday

some_one wrote:

The way the word is used here is really mostly just people noticing that the world moves on without them and digging in their heels in response. Every time a show does something that wouldn't have been done like that 20 years ago, it's perceived as complete deliberate propaganda and clearly a bad thing. It's really more an emotion than it is something factual.

I 100% agree, nicely put.

61

Re: Wednesday

dekelder wrote:

sorry should have added an am a 64 year od white female living in australia thanks

Is that you, mum? big_smile

62 (edited by TheFizza 2022-12-06 10:23:51)

Re: Wednesday

some_one wrote:

The show itself was IMO alright, but also not all great. One aspect of the Addams in general is normally that they are always in near-complete control of any situation they are in, often obliviously so. Wednesday in particular, and without the oblivious part. The fact that they had to keep up the conflict in this show kinda wasted that premise...

Still pretty enjoyable overall.

Well put... Early TNG comes to mind as a well documented series which struggled to creating conflict for it's highly competent cast of characters [ and depending whom you ask NuTrek still struggles with that ].

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=fe18e3ede310c4d0ddb3af64211e19ec

63 (edited by merc 2022-12-06 13:52:23)

Re: Wednesday

What sort of show is The Addams Family? it aint a Agatha Christie who dunnit or a  horror blood and guts film. It is a series to enjoy the character actions & interactions so why expect anything more from Wednesday. In that it succeeds 100% eg

Spoiler

when Wednesday does her goth dance and Weem looks on - (over in 1 second)

64

Re: Wednesday

TheFizza wrote:

Early TNG comes to mind as a well documented series which struggled to creating conflict for it's highly competent cast of characters [ and depending whom you ask NuTrek still struggles with that ].

Nah, I could have been more clear there. The Addams Family has always been a bit of a parody of stereotypically normal families from the last century - by being anything but that, and being happy with it. In case of Wednesday, at least the 90s movies (I don't know a lot about the 60s show or the 30s newspaper cartoon) portrayed her as a young girl who is extremely emotionally mature and utterly aware of what she is doing at any given time - as opposed to the normal adults around her who only pretend to be those things.

Because the plot tried to be serious here, it wasn't really an option to have everyone else be comically stupid and immature all the time. So in order to even have any story to tell, they had to make her less in control of her surroundings and to have her not just be a simple asshole they had to make her actually care about some things. Both of that made the whole premise a lot less... unique? Less than it should have been.

65

Re: Wednesday

TheFizza wrote:

Just finished Wednesday, art is subjective, that being said I give this series 2.5 maybe 3 STARS out of 5 and this is mostly for the vibes/atmosphere because for a show that basically stole lines right out of the mouths of Film Noir detectives, Wednesday was an incredibly incompetent detective.

In fact that was possibly the most Scooby-Doo mystery I have ever seen on a very popular live-action TV series. I 100% knew exactly how it was going to end by the last few minuets of episode one. I called who the villain was, who the monster was... annnnd it was completely frustrating to see the main character, who they establish in the universe is being smart, acting so very clueless. There were a couple of times when I thought she was purposely being stupid, like it was all a ruse... however that was clearly me giving this series waaaaay too much credit neutral

I spent most of the series yelling at the screen things like, "that guys is clearly the monster you can even tell that from the CGI" and "she is clearly the evil 'dead' daughter, it could not be more obvious" hmm  There was even a time I laughed out loud at a line of VoiceOver from Wednesday about how could it possibly be the girl who we know died in a foreign country surrounded by strangers in a suspicious way lol lol lol lol  At which point I seriously considered if the series was secretly actually a straight-up comedy.

That all being as it was the ambience in the series was fantastic, the characterizations were good and the themes were followed through well… even if the mystery was so-so-so extremely pedestrian.

I spotted both by the end of the second episode two, but find this is quite a common thing in modern "mystery" series where the audience is given enough info to work out the bad-guy and the "mystery" is watching the main characters work it out.
But, agreed, it was very "Scooby-Doo"....

66

Re: Wednesday

dekelder wrote:

The way the word is used here is really mostly just people noticing that the world moves on without them and digging in their heels in response. Every time a show does something that wouldn't have been done like that 20 years ago, it's perceived as complete deliberate propaganda and clearly a bad thing. It's really more an emotion than it is something factual.

Very well explained

67 (edited by merc 2022-12-08 11:22:06)

Re: Wednesday

Patrician wrote:
TheFizza wrote:

Just finished Wednesday, art is subjective, that being said I give this series 2.5 maybe 3 STARS out of 5 and this is mostly for the vibes/atmosphere because for a show that basically stole lines right out of the mouths of Film Noir detectives, Wednesday was an incredibly incompetent detective.

In fact that was possibly the most Scooby-Doo mystery I have ever seen on a very popular live-action TV series. I 100% knew exactly how it was going to end by the last few minuets of episode one. I called who the villain was, who the monster was... annnnd it was completely frustrating to see the main character, who they establish in the universe is being smart, acting so very clueless. There were a couple of times when I thought she was purposely being stupid, like it was all a ruse... however that was clearly me giving this series waaaaay too much credit neutral

I spent most of the series yelling at the screen things like, "that guys is clearly the monster you can even tell that from the CGI" and "she is clearly the evil 'dead' daughter, it could not be more obvious" hmm  There was even a time I laughed out loud at a line of VoiceOver from Wednesday about how could it possibly be the girl who we know died in a foreign country surrounded by strangers in a suspicious way lol lol lol lol  At which point I seriously considered if the series was secretly actually a straight-up comedy.

That all being as it was the ambience in the series was fantastic, the characterizations were good and the themes were followed through well… even if the mystery was so-so-so extremely pedestrian.

I spotted both by the end of the second episode two, but find this is quite a common thing in modern "mystery" series where the audience is given enough info to work out the bad-guy and the "mystery" is watching the main characters work it out.
But, agreed, it was very "Scooby-Doo"....

nothing wrong with Scooby-Doo. The Agatha Christie type of mystery is much overrated is no better or worse than what we have here. In fact  you could say the A.C type of fiction is a means to sell books by turning the reader into an amateur sleuth( I dont like crosswords or puzzles either).....Maybe some one corrects me in those type of fiction the characters and events take second place and are rarely whimsical. I see very little virtue in being able to see things the protagonists cannot see just as we know it is fiction, so that is a frame of mind i rarely ever cultivate so I tend to go with the flow and let it unfold

68 (edited by TheFizza 2022-12-11 13:08:45)

Re: Wednesday

merc wrote:

What sort of show is The Addams Family? it aint a Agatha Christie who dunnit or a  horror blood and guts film. It is a series to enjoy the character actions & interactions so why expect anything more from Wednesday. In that it succeeds 100%

Patrician wrote:

I spotted both by the end of the second episode two, but find this is quite a common thing in modern "mystery" series where the audience is given enough info to work out the bad-guy and the "mystery" is watching the main characters work it out.
But, agreed, it was very "Scooby-Doo"....

merc wrote:

nothing wrong with Scooby-Doo. The Agatha Christie type of mystery is much overrated is no better or worse than what we have here. In fact  you could say the A.C type of fiction is a means to sell books by turning the reader into an amateur sleuth (I dont like crosswords or puzzles either).....Maybe some one corrects me in those type of fiction the characters and events take second place and are rarely whimsical. I see very little virtue in being able to see things the protagonists cannot see just as we know it is fiction, so that is a frame of mind i rarely ever cultivate so I tend to go with the flow and let it unfold

You both make excellent points, thank you for sharing them, there is "nothing wrong with Scooby-Doo" I in fact celebrate the recent Scoob-Batman comics in my collection. Also I do agree that the non-mystery elements do a great job, perhaps I'm the only one who gots frustrated when the clues were all there for the main characters yet they can't put it together.

BTW, merc, whodunit's are often very whimsical... Especially Aggy's yarns [ yes, I celebrate quite a few from the Queen of Crime in my collection ] which is why even her stand-along books are adapted so often today.

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=fe18e3ede310c4d0ddb3af64211e19ec

69

Re: Wednesday

some_one wrote:
TheFizza wrote:

Early TNG comes to mind as a well documented series which struggled to creating conflict for it's highly competent cast of characters [ and depending whom you ask NuTrek still struggles with that ].

Nah, I could have been more clear there. The Addams Family has always been a bit of a parody of stereotypically normal families from the last century - by being anything but that, and being happy with it. In case of Wednesday, at least the 90s movies (I don't know a lot about the 60s show or the 30s newspaper cartoon) portrayed her as a young girl who is extremely emotionally mature and utterly aware of what she is doing at any given time - as opposed to the normal adults around her who only pretend to be those things.

Because the plot tried to be serious here, it wasn't really an option to have everyone else be comically stupid and immature all the time. So in order to even have any story to tell, they had to make her less in control of her surroundings and to have her not just be a simple asshole they had to make her actually care about some things. Both of that made the whole premise a lot less... unique? Less than it should have been.

Thanks for refining your point, I see where you're coming from now.

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=fe18e3ede310c4d0ddb3af64211e19ec

70 (edited by merc 2022-12-10 20:53:50)

Re: Wednesday

it is a black comedy. I bet when they screen tested Jenna Ortega they wanted to find out if she could hold a straight face come what may, given her lines.  The Wednesday voice overs remind me of those old 50's detective films which took themselves so seriously. The outtakes must be fun

71 (edited by TheFizza 2022-12-11 13:16:22)

Re: Wednesday

merc wrote:

it is a black comedy. I bet when they screen tested Jenna Ortega they wanted to find out if she could hold a straight face come what may, given her lines.  The Wednesday voice overs remind me of those old 50's detective films which took themselves so seriously. The outtakes must be fun

Actually that VoiceOver had me feeling the same way, in fact there were lines of VO which seemed cribbed directly from Film Noir's I've seen... that obvious dip into playing with the mystery genre was one of the reasons I found the transparent "mystery" of the show so very frustrating.

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=fe18e3ede310c4d0ddb3af64211e19ec

72 (edited by merc 2022-12-12 21:07:31)

Re: Wednesday

TheFizza wrote:
merc wrote:

it is a black comedy. I bet when they screen tested Jenna Ortega they wanted to find out if she could hold a straight face come what may, given her lines.  The Wednesday voice overs remind me of those old 50's detective films which took themselves so seriously. The outtakes must be fun

Actually that VoiceOver had me feeling the same way, in fact there were lines of VO which seemed cribbed directly from Film Noir's I've seen... that obvious dip into playing with the mystery genre was one of the reasons I found the transparent "mystery" of the show so very frustrating.

I suppose the target audience are teenagers not film buffs so you have to lower your standards?

73

Re: Wednesday

merc wrote:
TheFizza wrote:
merc wrote:

it is a black comedy. I bet when they screen tested Jenna Ortega they wanted to find out if she could hold a straight face come what may, given her lines.  The Wednesday voice overs remind me of those old 50's detective films which took themselves so seriously. The outtakes must be fun

Actually that VoiceOver had me feeling the same way, in fact there were lines of VO which seemed cribbed directly from Film Noir's I've seen... that obvious dip into playing with the mystery genre was one of the reasons I found the transparent "mystery" of the show so very frustrating.

I suppose the target audience are teenagers not film buffs so you have to lower your standards?

Ha!  That is so true.  There are so many posts here that I read and think, "Jeez, don't over-analyse it, just watch it."

2020.  Meh.

74 (edited by merc 2022-12-14 13:24:42)

Re: Wednesday

at the end of the day most of the things that Wednesday(& family) says are just plain idiotic and moronic and she should be put in a padded room for her own sake, looked at soberly, but that would miss the point inverting language meaning on the fly?(Almost a Lewis Caroll type of world they inhabit ( without the sophistication?)

75 (edited by merc 2022-12-14 20:15:21)

Re: Wednesday

seems like it is second most popular English-language TV series of all time

Spoiler

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mo … 803760.mp4

Apparantly she had covid symptoms when she recorded the fabulous goth dance, confirmed later -  have been critiicised by some but praised by others for carrying on. It looks as if most of the many other performers were kepts away from her.

This show will get a second season then be extinguished