26

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

LOTR: Rings of Power Reaches 25 Million Viewers, Record for Amazon
https://tvline.com/2022/09/03/rings-of- … -1-amazon/

27 (edited by paisley1 2022-09-03 22:56:35)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

Speaking of twaddle...

merc wrote:

( give me The Outpost any day)

lol Bahahahaha!  lol  Hilarious.  The Outpost is such a crap show I just can't take you seriously. lol  Bring on the old fashioned and "high-art" lolz, if that's what this is?

The Rings of Power is so lore rich, with so many story lines, characters, and places to cue into, I can see the average viewer getting a bit lost trying to track everything, almost as though, this should've been 3 shows?  They might be trying to bite off more than they can chew, as I can see myself complaining about there not being enough episodes, very very quickly. lol

Superb production quality, but it does look a bit too digital for my tastes, with a very clean, clear, and crisp sharp digital look to everything, when I prefer the softer look of film, which in my mind creates a sense of fantasy.

Bear McCreary did a great job with the intro score, and speaking of the importance of music to Middle-Earth lore:

Spoiler

All things in the middle earth universe were conceived by music on the theme of Iluvatar.

"But when they were come into the Void, Iluvatar said to them: ‘Behold your Music!’ And he showed to them (The Ainur or first Holy beings created by Iluvatar) a vision, giving to them sight where before was only hearing; and they saw a new World made visible before them, and it was globed amid the Void, and it was sustained therein, but was not of it. And as they looked and wondered this World began to unfold its history, and it seemed to them that it lived and grew. And when the Ainur had gazed for a while and were silent, Iluvatar said again: ‘Behold your Music! This is your minstrelsy; and each of you shall find contained herein, amid the design that I set before you, all those things which it may seem that he himself devised or added. And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all the secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory."

The fact that the Dwarves have tapped into using sound and music for mining, when music was the initial thought of the entire Tolkien Universe, it felt like a great piece of lore building to start the series.

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Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

I was wondering if there were enough nerd memes on the entire innertubes for @paisley1's earlier admission of getting out maps. That last bit answered my question with a resounding 'not even close' And most hilarious to me is that it's spoiler tagged lol

29 (edited by paisley1 2022-09-03 23:18:25)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

mrverene wrote:

I was wondering if there were enough nerd memes on the entire innertubes for @paisley1's earlier admission of getting out maps. That last bit answered my question with a resounding 'not even close' And most hilarious to me is that it's spoiler tagged lol

I dunno, a true nerd wouldn't need to look up where the crap Eregion was on a map, (it's just south of Rivendell) lolz, but I def love the Tolkien world, even if I don't think I qualify as a Tolkien nerd....I just don't speak elvish...yet. lolz. lol

30

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

Yeah if you can't recite the entire genealogies in verse you'd be laughed out of the conference

31 (edited by paisley1 2022-09-04 18:04:33)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

mrverene wrote:

Yeah if you can't recite the entire genealogies in verse you'd be laughed out of the conference

Tolkeeners sound mean, I better get studying, don't want to get kicked out of all the conferences.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1QhTw6GoLL._SL1500_.jpg

I had it wrong, Eregion is South of Rivendell. lol

Christopher Tolkien's views on Lord of the Rings:

https://gamerant.com/lotr-christopher-t … aptations/
https://screenrant.com/christopher-tolk … ord-rings/

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Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

I have read the silmirillion (and most of tolkiens other work) but serious question, and I don’t mean to create any upset, but how “woke” is this show based on the first two episodes?

Brothers! What we do in life...Echoes in Eternity!


http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=9a35ebe93d371275706bdebcafefaa47

33 (edited by merc 2022-09-04 07:14:53)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

paisley1 wrote:
mrverene wrote:

Yeah if you can't recite the entire genealogies in verse you'd be laughed out of the conference

Tolkeeners sound mean, I better get studying, don't want to get kicked out of all the conferences.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/A1QhTw6GoLL._SL1500_.jpg

I had it wrong, Eregion is South of Rivendell. lol

Christopher Tolkien's views on Lord of the Rings:  https://gamerant.com/lotr-christopher-t … aptations/

and this:  https://screenrant.com/christopher-tolk … ord-rings/

highbrow trekkies. do you all dress up?

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Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

paisley1 wrote:
merc wrote:

( give me The Outpost any day)

lol Bahahahaha!  lol  Hilarious.  The Outpost is such a crap show I just can't take you seriously. lol

Don't feed the trolls, eh, merc. cool

mrverene wrote:

Yeah if you can't recite the entire genealogies in verse you'd be laughed out of the conference

big_smile

35 (edited by paisley1 2022-09-04 18:55:32)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

nightcrow wrote:

I have read the silmirillion (and most of tolkiens other work) but serious question, and I don’t mean to create any upset, but how “woke” is this show based on the first two episodes?

Like on the woke smell-o-meter?  There's mildly diverse choices in casting for the books, a Harfoot girl lead, Galadriel's somehow a trained weapon of destruction, the male elves are as effeminate as expected, one standard inter species and one inter-racial relationship, so....uhhh...smells like passing concealed garbage cans on your way home from work...like a 2 out of 10....ish.  I didn't find it woke, but it's definitely liberal in it's approach to the source material which Tolkien purists might dislike; I loved it.

My main complaints are how digital it looks, and how many story lines they decided to set up which feels rushed when they need to take their time to build the world and establish the history.

@merc Yes.

@Lighton Not even the snow trolls, or cave trolls, or stone trolls, or hill trolls, or mountain trolls, or half trolls..... wink ...what did the trolls ever do to you?  lolz.

36 (edited by merc 2022-09-04 09:31:49)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

eps 2 was better. but I think too slow for a show with just 8 eps. I am not a fan of shows that create worshipers. At the end of the day the actors are doing a job and do not I think take part in the worship (thats the impression I got from a pod cast that interviewed the cast of Stargirl, very down to earth mentality, pride of workmanship yes), By worshiping you are getting converted into a pseudo money making religeon to take your money.

37

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

paisley1 wrote:
nightcrow wrote:

I have read the silmirillion (and most of tolkiens other work) but serious question, and I don’t mean to create any upset, but how “woke” is this show based on the first two episodes?

Like on the woke smell-o-meter?  There's mildly diverse choices in casting for the books, a Harfoot girl lead, Galadriel's somehow a trained weapon of destruction, the male elves are as effeminate as expected, one standard inter species (inter-racial) relationship, so....uhhh...smells like passing concealed garbage cans on your way home from work...like a 2 out of 10....ish.  I didn't find it woke, but it's definitely liberal in it's approach to the source material which Tolkien purists might dislike; I loved it.

My main complaints are how digital it looks, and how many story lines they decided to set up which feels rushed when they need to take their time to build the world and establish the history.


Thank you for your reply. I think I prefer when shows/movies have such good source material that the directors stick to it as much as possible and not try to diversify with a specific agenda.

I dont have any problem with diversification whether by race, religion or sexual orientation etc, but it does bug me when source material is deliberately changed to fit a certain agenda.

For example, it would bother me if Tolkien/the source material describes all elves as tall, white, blond and blue eyed (which I am neither of those - save for the tall part) and then the producers/directors go and assign a short, gay, brown, dark haired chubby transsexual for the role.

I tried to avoid shows with a political agenda when they clearly/deliberately diverge from the source material.

Brothers! What we do in life...Echoes in Eternity!


http://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=default&kk=9a35ebe93d371275706bdebcafefaa47

38 (edited by paisley1 2022-09-04 18:54:30)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

nightcrow wrote:

Thank you for your reply. I think I prefer when shows/movies have such good source material that the directors stick to it as much as possible and not try to diversify with a specific agenda.

I dont have any problem with diversification whether by race, religion or sexual orientation etc, but it does bug me when source material is deliberately changed to fit a certain agenda.

For example, it would bother me if Tolkien/the source material describes all elves as tall, white, blond and blue eyed (which I am neither of those - save for the tall part) and then the producers/directors go and assign a short, gay, brown, dark haired chubby transsexual for the role.

I tried to avoid shows with a political agenda when they clearly/deliberately diverge from the source material.

You're welcome, and I agree, all of that is immersion breaking and takes me out of the fiction, and in this it would just ruin everything, and I didn't find it that way.  Apparently Amazon went way off track with The Wheel of Time and the purists just hated it, so I get your concern that that might happen with this.  I honestly don't remember enough from the books to know what doesn't fit or make sense, it was 20 years ago that I read the Silmarillion, I'd have to re-read, it's all a bit foggy.  I remembered the lore about the music though, in my spoiler here.

CNN disagrees with me and says it's fully woke:  https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/03/entertai … index.html

39 (edited by g371 2022-09-05 07:02:11)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

nightcrow wrote:

For example, it would bother me if Tolkien/the source material describes all elves as tall, white, blond and blue eyed (which I am neither of those - save for the tall part) and then the producers/directors go and assign a short, gay, brown, dark haired chubby transsexual for the role.

In this case it's funny because these elves later in the timeline somehow became white, epic memes circling around with a rhetoric question what happened to them big_smile

But regarding that brainwashing, I don't see a problem of remixing some stories (like for example Watson was played by Lucy Liu in Elementary - wrong race and gender), when it fits and is not done for propaganda sheep force feeding. And that difference you can tell right away, American propagandons also are not the sharpest tools, all that garbage is obvious and pathetic.

40

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

The visuals were great but I thought it was kinda boring, I wandered off half way through. Thought Galadriel was pretty unlikeable. I'll see where the reviews end up after the initial frenzy...lucky I'm quite enjoying House of Dragons so far so thats giving me my fantasy fix.

41

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

proteinnerd wrote:

The visuals were great but I thought it was kinda boring, I wandered off half way through. Thought Galadriel was pretty unlikeable. I'll see where the reviews end up after the initial frenzy...lucky I'm quite enjoying House of Dragons so far so thats giving me my fantasy fix.

yes considering the amount of money spent on it

42 (edited by paisley1 2022-09-11 18:45:53)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

103....Tremendous set design and CGI.  Halbrand is very likeable and the only character I'm cheering for, but found myself getting a bit bored with everything else, as there's a pacing to an episode of TV and a history to Tolkien that when combined I don't know how well it works.  Retold as an historical tale and narrated from the future may have worked better for me. 

The cinematography is still not mystical and fantasy enough to me when it's worth...(just let me calculate)...$250,000,000.00 divided by 8 episodes = $31,250,000.00 per episode...and when the Fellowship of the Rings cost a mere $93,000,000.00 to make, you'd think they'd capture the ethereal in the cinematography right for this TV show.  House of the Dragon does.

Spoiler

I liked Elendil, Isilidur and Eärien's (non-canon sister) Numenorian family dynamic, pre-Middle Earth, and everything about Numenor.  The way they wrote Galadriel as being hot tempered and lacking wisdom though, really felt off when she's older than they are.

43

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

paisley1 wrote:

The cinematography is still not mystical and fantasy enough to me when it's worth...(just let me calculate)...$250,000,000.00 divided by 8 episodes = $31,250,000.00 per episode...and when the Fellowship of the Rings cost a mere $93,000,000.00 to make, you'd think they'd capture the ethereal in the cinematography right for this TV show.  House of the Dragon does.

Its 1 billion divided by 40. 250M was just for the filming rights.

44

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

Great show. Light years better than HoTD

45 (edited by merc 2022-09-13 09:06:27)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

The UK Spectator's view

Spoiler

Amazon’s much-heralded Tolkien prequel The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power began by answering a question that has puzzled humankind – and possibly elves – these many millennia. Why is it that a ship floats and a stone doesn’t? The reason apparently is because ‘a stone sees only downward’, whereas a ship has ‘her gaze fixed upon the light that guides her’.

And this, I’m afraid, set the tone for much of the dialogue that followed in the two episodes released so far – as, to their credit, the characters managed to exchange an endless series of ponderous aphorisms without giggling. So it was that we learned how ‘the wine is sweetest for those in whose bitter trials it has fermented’; how ‘the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also cause it to spread’; and, more pithily, how ‘there can be no trust between hammer and rock’..............

46

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

I think there are just too many subplots in this show in each eps.The only sublot missing from eps 4 was those little people.  Would be fine if it was a Netflix publish all the eps at once. But it isn't

47

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

I tapped out of the show but having read @merc's spoiler I'll be a buyer if they release a compendium of ridiculous aphorisms.

48

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

merc wrote:

I think there are just too many subplots in this show in each eps.The only sublot missing from eps 4 was those little people.  Would be fine if it was a Netflix publish all the eps at once. But it isn't

I disagree with releasing them all at once, but you have a point regarding the number of subplots. Maybe they should have opted for 10 instead of 8 episodes, to stretch out everything a bit more.

49 (edited by fassy 2022-09-19 09:13:10)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

Oh boy, I dropped this nonsense somewhere during EP4.

Don't even know where to start. It is just an absolute awful show. I will not comment on the whole diversity thing anymore than: I do not need a black elf or dwarf woman, as much as I do not need an asian Mandela or white Martin Luther King. I think it breaks immersion and doesn't help. But I am not a super hater. So I accept their cast and judge them on their performance.

Visuals:
Yes, the landscapes and CGI is beautiful. The rendering and work put into e.g. Khazad-dûm is just awesome.

But like in the Wheel of Time, all looks much too clean. Much too synthetic. It is much too obvious all has been filmed before the Green Screen. It feels... artificial to a point where it is not enjoyable. Also, the armor and weapons look like plastic props (which they are). Also, same as in Wheel of Time... why break with the typical high fantasy style by having 20 century haircuts?

Still I wonder where the 400+ million in production cost for the first season went? I see nothing, which justifies this cost.

Story:
I am not a die hard Tolkin fan. To be honest, I never read Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit or The Silmarillion... started a few times, but never really managed to dig into it. I found it mostly boring. While I am a huge fantasy reader... read almost all of Dragon Lance, Legend of the Dark Elves, Icewind Dale Trilogy, everything I could find in the Witcher universe, The First Law series, A Song of Ice and Fire, etc... and loved every page of them. But LOTR? Never got me. So I could enjoy the PJ movies without thinking too much. They were nice if you don't have to discuss the "historical" accuracy and can accept the one or two bad casts (Yes,... Orlando Bloom... looking your way) and few goofy scenes.

So, for the Rings of Power.... well, boooooooring. I feel this is going nowhere. So much talk, so little story progression.

Acting:
Yuck! Just Yuck! Yeah, great actors can be made look stupid by having them perform cheesy dialogues or do stupid things. But in this abomination of a fantasy TV series... it is not just that the dialogues are cheesy or the characters do stupid stuff all the time.

Morfydd Clark, Robert Aramayo, Charles Edwards and Ismael Cruz Córdova are probably the most un-elvish Elves I ever seen on screen. Next to absolute no talent of acting. I saw some high school theaters which did a better job. If I have to pick the worst of all... probably Miss Clark. I hate every second with her on screen. Which is kind of a problem, when the main story heavily relies on Galadriel.

Other lows are Cynthia Addai-Robinson, which already ruined Spartacus with her absolute lack of acting talent... (btw... did I sport the mighty Barca in EP4?) and the Orcs.

While being fearsome enemies in the movies (well, yes,... with one or the other goofy scene), in the TV series I feel thrown back to 1994, having a tremendous hangover and switching on the TV on a Saturday morning to be tortured by the Power Rangers getting ambushed by the foot-soldiers.... you know? These guys in the pink catsuits.

The hobbits/hairfoots? Com'on. What a disgrace. All I have to say to about those scenes....

Score:
Quite nice.

Overall:
I will not spend another minute on this. I guess a lot of people will enjoy this show. But I just can't. And as said... not based on the diversity stuff but on these three things ranked:
1) Bad, bad, horrific actor performance
2) Too beautiful to be real, aka falls deep into the Uncanny Valley
3) Just a boring, not well paced story

I could accept one or maybe even two of these points if the other one outshines the issues, e.g. great acting can compensate for a lackluster story or bad visuals. But if all of those are meh...

50 (edited by merc 2022-09-19 10:33:50)

Re: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

fassy wrote:

Oh boy, I dropped this nonsense somewhere during EP4.

Don't even know where to start. It is just an absolute awful show

So, for the Rings of Power.... well, boooooooring. I feel this is going nowhere. So much talk, so little story progression.......( read his item above)..........................

all this which is why way back I said , non trolling, that I preferred The Outpost, ok cheaply made but no pretensions, which actually had a rather interesting mythology, a Hammer Films production for any UK person who knows the genre of horror films with Vincent Price and Peter Cushing. Atleast The Outpost had some likeable characters? ( janzo)