Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi] (Page 7 of 8)

100% agree. I was very disappointed they didn't follow through. Wonder if it is the same in the book(s), no clue how close the show follows the book(s). My guess is that they dont, and have gender/race swapped a lot. Anyone who knows?

The book(s) are very different from the show although it's the same broad theme and the names/concepts are recycled. To the show's defense, it would be a very weird TV show if they followed the book(s) closely.

Wednesday!!!!!!!!!!

Coming from anyone else, I would have assumed those words to be satirical. But maintaining that kind of control requires you to keep your people both sufficiently uneducated (which had already demonstrably failed by the time Seldon originally showed up) and powerless against you (an advantage that is already lost here due to ignoring the Foundation for a century). The situation they are in this season makes that entirely a case of "what should have been done and why" and no longer of actually actionable advice.

General word of advice... trying to retort without at least making a token effort at actually answering the question will usually make anyone come off as defensive and, ultimately, wrong.

Highly educated midwits are usually the ones that are most willing to defend the regime, the reason for that is very simple; They have the most to lose and that's why there is roughly a 100% support for the current regime in academia for instance, the few academic dissidents are usually outside of the ivory towers.

Uneducated peasants were the ones that were willing to rebel against the king over something as small as a 2.5% taxhike during feudalism because they were men of principle and they knew by instinct and through religion what was fair and just, that's in contrast to today where e.g. Canada's government is killing off its weaklings through MAID and practically only the Christians or other groups that embrace natural law with very little power are protesting it.

Well you're certainly right that we're off the rails in regards to the story. You say it's a show about humanity which makes sense because as Salvor Hardin says the Empire is standing against "PROGRESS" and you probably equate that to a form of humanism, an improvement of the human condition.

I say it's a shame because the original work was about cyclical history(the alternative theory to "Progress" which is a liberal notion), making it possible to predict social changes through math because we had enough examples of history repeating or rhyming so now we could use math to calculate what would happen similar to how we calculate gravity.

What we're presented with instead is a bastardized story full of propaganda sadly.

The show has been taking weirdly sharp turns all season. Never entirely sure where they are going with anything. Really enjoying it. Did this really just happen? Tune in next week to find out. Maybe.

I think your own biases deceive you here, because I do not. The Empire has proven, here, to be a viable system that has worked reasonably well for thousands of years, with even the Cleons having been around for several centuries. That's not up for debate. But the Empire is collapsing now, slowly, and that will bring with it a loss of technology and infrastructure and, thus, quality of life for a lot of people. The mission is to dampen that effect. Whether or not Seldon is commited to that alone is another question, of course, but that is another matter.

The recurring theme that is repeatedly even called out is the contrast between being able to predict the path of humanity as a whole, but not of humans individually. It's about helping humanity as a whole and how it affects the lives of individual humans. My point was about how most of the main characters in the story are leaders or not even strictly human and can directly influence the short-term path of history. Those preachers are not that. They are just regular humans who those events happen to. Having them there helps us viewers to understand the scope of things better.

As an autocrat, you'll want to keep people uneducated because you don't want them to know how to overthrow you, or that it is even possible. That rule did not apply when e.g. in Europe the church was a mostly independent institution that kept people "educated" and all it took to take down your local lord was a bunch of torches and pitchforks. This rule has only really started applying when "modern" dictatorships rolled around. The Empire in this show kept itself mostly stable primarily by monopolizing jumpships, but also by claiming ownership over any scientific progress and, most importantly, not getting too involved in most peoples' lives.

They failed that last part first when applying collective punishment to an entire planet. Maybe if they had actually killed everyone there it might have worked. But like this, it only lead to large-scale resentment. Then they cut them off from the first part, the jumpships, thus forcing them to come up with their own solution (while assuming they couldn't). The second part was also lost entirely when cutting all communication. Basically, the Cleons underestimated their own replacability. Which is ironic, really, considering how literally replacable they are.

Ah please knock it off with this US bullshit. You have white supremacists (incl. Nazis), theocrats, anarcho-capitalists, "conservatives" (those who want to return to how things were), antivaxxers for some reason and a bunch of other authoritans on one side, communists, socialists, anarchists, "conservatives" (those who want to keep things as they are), environmentalists and a bunch of other hippie-related groups on the other. Are you actually trying to claim either of those groups could ever form, much less have any long-term cohesion, outside of a preexisting two-party system? This stuff is ingrained propaganda nonsense, nothing more.

And no, that idea of "progress" is not a "liberal notion", it is simply an excuse for people to feel superior to their recent ancestors and it has been around at least since the renaissance.

Season 2 was a whole lot of build up for 8 episodes for 2 pretty badass ending episodes filled with twists and turns. It sets up season 3 well, and I'm looking forward to more!

It really, really was slow though for quite a while there.

Yes, the monarchists atleast among them, they have a proven trackrecord already so duh.

Also I'm not American, I'm from Scandinavia.

No, Progress as a concept is not from the renaissance, it requires ideas from Kant, Voltaire, Locke, Rousseau etc. Lets just take the industrial revolution as an example requirement because without the ability to make capital investments there is no perceived progress.

2x10 - All of season 2 was great, and in 2x10 stories are being capped and new ones beginning, with plenty of suspense and twists I did not see coming, that said, I watched The Wheel of Time 2x5 right after, and I liked it more.

Since we are drifting off again, my response to this is in a new thread.

Interesting question...