76

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

Most of you guys complain about the show, but it still holds a good IMDb rating. I hope for more seasons! smile

77 (edited by paisley1 2021-11-01 06:06:12)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

I complained about the structure and approach to the source material from the very beginning; it's a pacing nightmare, like Cloud Atlas, and that makes it difficult to cue into and care about anyone.  107 finally went back to our lead storyline from 101 and 102, which, as far as I'm concerned, is the most interesting storyline, as 107 revealed new information in a way that brought me closer to Gaal in that....

Spoiler

Gaal learned something about herself, her psychic/prophetic abilities.

@Moze, Roxanne Dawson has done a wide range of directing in a lot of different TV shows, I left a link on her name. She directed The Long Con on LOST, Sawyers backstory episode.  Not that directing means anything when the problem with Foundation is the structure and approach to the material, as Alex Graves directed the most boring episodes in Foundation 104-106, and he's amazing, he directed the West Wing, Game of Thrones, and Homeland.  I'm just interested to see what Roxanne Dawson does with the material. 

Like the previous episodes, I predict 108 and 109 will be boring lead up, and 110 will be a big reveal.  I hope to be subverted.

@Lighton, an IMDB rating of 7.3/10 for Foundation is close to me, I'd give it a 7/10. 

Given what we've seen so far, what would everyone on next-episode rate Foundation out of 10?

78 (edited by merc 2021-11-01 15:59:32)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

paisley1 wrote:

I complained about the structure and approach to the source material from the very beginning; it's a pacing nightmare, like Cloud Atlas, and that makes it difficult to cue into and care about anyone.  107 finally went back to our lead storyline from 101 and 102, which, as far as I'm concerned, is the most interesting storyline, as 107 revealed new information in a way that brought me closer to Gaal in that....

Spoiler

Gaal learned something about herself, her psychic/prophetic abilities.

@Moze, Roxanne Dawson has done a wide range of directing in a lot of different TV shows, I left a link on her name. She directed The Long Con on LOST, Sawyers backstory episode.  Not that directing means anything when the problem with Foundation is the structure and approach to the material, as Alex Graves directed the most boring episodes in Foundation 104-106, and he's amazing, he directed the West Wing, Game of Thrones, and Homeland.  I'm just interested to see what Roxanne Dawson does with the material. 

Like the previous episodes, I predict 108 and 109 will be boring lead up, and 110 will be a big reveal.  I hope to be subverted.

@Lighton, an IMDB rating of 7.3/10 for Foundation is close to me, I'd give it a 7/10. 

Given what we've seen so far, what would everyone on next-episode rate Foundation out of 10?

To have to wait until the very last eps for any thing good  is a sign of failure. This show has so liitle drama in it, after the air bridge esp that is ( and what a stupid idea that is, fantasy gone mad - havent they heard of teleportation? some times  you need to update a book with more modern ideas otherwise it comes across as just quaint )

rating? 4/10

79 (edited by paisley1 2021-11-01 17:53:38)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

merc wrote:

To have to wait until the very last eps for any thing good  is a sign of failure. This show has so liitle drama in it, after the air bridge esp that is ( and what a stupid idea that is, fantasy gone mad - havent they heard of teleportation? some times  you need to update a book with more modern ideas otherwise it comes across as just quaint ) rating? 4/10

4/10? So you watch ironically or hate watch Foundation? lolz.  I'm like that while watching Discovery.  A bit harsh, but understandable when you want a show to be great, but it just doesn't work and you're frustrated.  I agree the technology is a bit crude and outdated, but what this last episode uncovers is that...

Spoiler

...the Cleons were suppressing technologies like FTL (Faster Than Light Jump Drives), and possibly many others like teleportation, as a part of maintaining their control, and the Galactic empire should be far more advanced than it is, but it's not, and the galaxy is slowly waking up to the scope of the tyranny.  If you think about it it's not dissimilar to the suppression of technological advancement today where big companies buy technologies and patents and then destroy them so they can continue to sell their garbage products that keep people subservient.  (Or governments hide them like Area 51 and all the flying saucers! lol) The concepts are so juicy and interesting, it's just unpacked on screen so poorly and flippantly that it doesn't resonate like it should.

80 (edited by merc 2021-11-01 21:41:39)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

paisley1 wrote:
merc wrote:

To have to wait until the very last eps for any thing good  is a sign of failure. This show has so liitle drama in it, after the air bridge esp that is ( and what a stupid idea that is, fantasy gone mad - havent they heard of teleportation? some times  you need to update a book with more modern ideas otherwise it comes across as just quaint ) rating? 4/10

4/10? So you watch ironically or hate watch Foundation? lolz.  I'm like that while watching Discovery.  A bit harsh, but understandable when you want a show to be great, but it just doesn't work and you're frustrated.  I agree the technology is a bit crude and outdated, but what this last episode uncovers is that...

Spoiler

...the Cleons were suppressing technologies like FTL (Faster Than Light Jump Drives), and possibly many others like teleportation, as a part of maintaining their control, and the Galactic empire should be far more advanced than it is, but it's not, and the galaxy is slowly waking up to the scope of the tyranny.  If you think about it it's not dissimilar to the suppression of technological advancement today where big companies buy technologies and patents and then destroy them so they can continue to sell their garbage products that keep people subservient.  (Or governments hide them like Area 51 and all the flying saucers! lol) The concepts are so juicy and interesting, it's just unpacked on screen so poorly and flippantly that it doesn't resonate like it should.

If I start watching some thing then generally I will see it to the end as long as it has a few good points. This is how it is with Supergirl now, started off fine then went Woke big time & turned kara into captain marvel without the humour. One exception that Y: The last Man . I just do not care how it turns out so stopped. The Y: last man 1/10

The Air Bridge thing sticking up into the sky is absurd ( am surprised Asimov went with it) a rotating planet, an  atmosphere with winds knocking it all around at different levels, gravity  trying to pull the bits down. And it taking how many hours to descend? And the whole season depends on its destruction?

81 (edited by paisley1 2021-11-02 03:27:16)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

merc wrote:

The Air Bridge thing sticking up into the sky is absurd ( am surprised Asimov went with it) a rotating planet, an  atmosphere with winds knocking it all around at different levels, gravity  trying to pull the bits down. And it taking how many hours to descend? And the whole season depends on its destruction?

If you mean, you just didn't like the special effects, fair enough, I wasn't crazy about it either, but the season was in no way dependent upon the space elevator going down, but on any rebellion starting that aligned with psycho history. Outdated technologies like Space Elevators that seem too antiquated for such an advanced society depicted in Foundation, I think are...

(...Merc, I invite you to read the spoiler below...)

Spoiler

...written to look that way on purpose.  My working theory, is that the antiquated concept of a space elevator, is written into Foundation intentionally to look antiquated, to show the power the Cleon's have, that they have suppressed technologies that would replace a space elevator like teleportation.  Such technologies would also replace the need for their genetic dynasty and they would no longer have control if such things got out.  They want to keep their power and tyranny, so the technology of the galaxy is suppressed.  Get it?  Again, that's just a working theory regarding the use of an antiquated device such as a space elevator, otherwise, you're right, it just looks old fashioned.

82 (edited by merc 2021-11-02 11:28:07)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

paisley1 wrote:
merc wrote:

The Air Bridge thing sticking up into the sky is absurd ( am surprised Asimov went with it) a rotating planet, an  atmosphere with winds knocking it all around at different levels, gravity  trying to pull the bits down. And it taking how many hours to descend? And the whole season depends on its destruction?

If you mean, you just didn't like the special effects, fair enough, I wasn't crazy about it either, but the season was in no way dependent upon the space elevator going down, but on any rebellion starting that aligned with psycho history. Outdated technologies like Space Elevators that seem too antiquated for such an advanced society depicted in Foundation, I think are...

(...Merc, I invite you to read the spoiler below...)

Spoiler

...written to look that way on purpose.  My working theory, is that the antiquated concept of a space elevator, is written into Foundation intentionally to look antiquated, to show the power the Cleon's have, that they have suppressed technologies that would replace a space elevator like teleportation.  Such technologies would also replace the need for their genetic dynasty and they would no longer have control if such things got out.  They want to keep their power and tyranny, so the technology of the galaxy is suppressed.  Get it?  Again, that's just a working theory regarding the use of an antiquated device such as a space elevator, otherwise, you're right, it just looks old fashioned.

well if there was no attack on the space elevator those two planets would not have been attacked as payback and those soldiers from one of them with the one eyed gal would not have invaded terminus to find a means to revenge?

83

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

lighton wrote:

Most of you guys complain about the show, but it still holds a good IMDb rating. I hope for more seasons! smile

Isnt 7.3 really bad for a series? Compared to series i really like it seems medioker at best.



paisley1 wrote:

Given what we've seen so far, what would everyone on next-episode rate Foundation out of 10?

6.5/10 so far, might up it to 7/10 if it keeps improving.

84 (edited by BingeWatcher415 2021-11-02 17:09:11)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

Am I the only person here that is really enjoying Foundation?
I've had to rewatch episodes to pick up details and nuances in the story.
Usually multi=task while watching TV but in this case, doesn't work for me.

From what I understand, Asimov's foundation was the inspiration for Star Wars and other sci-fi movies/series.

I'd love to hear/see what the critics of the show would do instead. Has anybody with insight about the show written books or produced movies/shows?

8 out of 10 for me. Might go up or down depending on how I feel after Season 1 is finished.

85

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

I'm 5 episodes in and I'm quite enjoying it.  Far more entertaining than the snoozefest that is The Expanse, but maybe that's an unfair comparison.

For me, I'd say... 7/10.

2020.  Meh.

86

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

I don't have time now to catch up with everything here, so just a quick reply:

Moze wrote:
lighton wrote:

Most of you guys complain about the show, but it still holds a good IMDb rating. I hope for more seasons! smile

Isnt 7.3 really bad for a series? Compared to series i really like it seems medioker at best.

No, 7.3 is "good". Sure, there are shows with even better ratings, but 7.3 is well above mediocre.

I rated Foundation 8/10.

The Expanse is discussed here: https://forum.next-episode.net/viewtopic.php?id=9054

87 (edited by paisley1 2021-11-05 19:08:07)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

merc wrote:

well if there was no attack on the space elevator those two planets would not have been attacked as payback and those soldiers from one of them with the one eyed gal would not have invaded terminus to find a means to revenge?

No, a rebellion in any form against the rule of the Cleons would still have happened, which didn't have to be the specific attack on the space elevator, that's irrelevant, it could've taken on any form, and the show would've just been different. 

I suppose, any time a story uses prophecy, it can look contrived; I thoroughly enjoy the prophetic motif in storytelling.  Playing on determinism and paradoxes I really enjoy, like in the Matrix, "What's really going to bake your noodle later on is, would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything?"  That's fun. smile

Lighton wrote:

No, 7.3 is "good". Sure, there are shows with even better ratings, but 7.3 is well above mediocre.

I agree, 7.3/10 is very good.  To find a show that's a 7/10 or higher is hard to find.  Most shows on today are near unwatchable, and Foundation is definitely watchable.

@Bingewatcher415, welcome, glad you weighed in.  I'm enjoying Foundation, but I'm also annoyed with certain aspects that could've been done better, thus....forums. big_smile

88 (edited by paisley1 2021-11-07 17:13:42)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

108 was amazing.  Tight editing, not a lot of wasted screen time which kept the energy up to the end. The camera placement between Hari (higher) and Gaal (lower) was great, and the use of crane shots in the middle of a desert, with an excessive amount of coverage, lolz, made an hour long episode feel like a movie.  108 is more like an 8.5/10, unlike the rest of the season.  I'd rather watch this story, than the new Dune movie.

Spoiler

I kinda want to embed a spoiler within a spoiler in case of an accidental click, because I'm about to really give away plot so...

Spoiler

The Zephyr's need someone who can do some sort of post Spiral walk Vulcan mind meld to verify if the vision is bullshit or not, because they aren't particularly discerning if they couldn't spot a lie, I mean, the first thing I said when Brother Day said he saw a vision, was bullshit, so, not a particularly intelligent group.  I also thought the reveal would be bigger, that he lied about everything and still had nanites in his system and he was made to look like he was in pain by some holo emitter he had on.  So he lied less than what I thought he was lying.  Also, did Brother Day walk all the way back from the spiral, or did someone come pick him up?  No idea.

Since this is a double spoiler here's the whole plot:

The group on the Invictus finally reaches the bridge. Meanwhile, Hugo safely arrives at a comms relay and calls for help from his people. Just as the Thespins attack, and Phara and Salvor fight each other, the Invictus jumps into the unknown. On the Raven, Hari divulges his plan to establish a secret second Foundation on Helicon, nicknamed "Star's End" due its orbit around a black hole, but refuses to elaborate. Irate and impatient, Gaal forces Hari to let her leave in the escape pod, and she sets a course for Synnax that will take 138 years to elapse. Brother Day completes the Spiral, a torturous trek to a desert cave pool, and claims to have received a vision of a sacred flower from Luminism's triple-goddess. The Zephyrs interpret Day's vision as a divine pronouncement that he has a soul, rendering any further criticism of Imperial cloning by a Luminist to be sacrilege, and also guaranteeing Zephyr Gilat's elevation to Proxima. Day seals his victory by commanding his robot majordomo, Eto Demerzel, to covertly assassinate Halima. Demerzel is a devout Luminist who respects Halima and is greatly distressed by the command, but she is compelled to obey by her programming. As they leave The Maiden behind, Day reflects on his experience in the cave, revealing he had no vision at all, and a tearful Demerzel signals to him that she is aware of the deception and disapproves.

89 (edited by merc 2021-11-06 11:32:34)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

Spoiler

Well Empire got very red in eps 8. and proved to be lack a soul as he did not get a vision, also a liar. sounds like the UK's Boris Johnson

90 (edited by graybags 2021-11-06 11:38:39)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

merc wrote:
Spoiler

Well Empire got very red in eps 8. and proved to be lack a soul as he did not get a vision, also a liar. sounds like the UK's Boris Johnson

Interesting.  Where are you from so I can take the piss out of your country's leader?

2020.  Meh.

91

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

graybags wrote:
merc wrote:
Spoiler

Well Empire got very red in eps 8. and proved to be lack a soul as he did not get a vision, also a liar. sounds like the UK's Boris Johnson

Interesting.  Where are you from so I can take the piss out of your country's leader?

The UK so I am entitled lol

92

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

I'm already lost in the timeline what is happening when.

93

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

has Gaal gone for good now? I hope so. hope her pod has a malfunction and she sleeps until the end of the universe. she does othing other than count primes. what sort of person does that? every one knows there is no algorithm for getting them so a stupid thing to do.

94

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

merc wrote:

has Gaal gone for good now? I hope so. hope her pod has a malfunction and she sleeps until the end of the universe. she does othing other than count primes. what sort of person does that? every one knows there is no algorithm for getting them so a stupid thing to do.

Yes 100% agree, what a garbage character, behaves like a shitty kid, can't act for shit. And all this talk about "math" like it's som ancient magic is really lame.

95

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

I felt the same about Gaal at the beginning but her backstory episodes helped me cue into her character.  I like her now.

Spoiler

Gaal's temper tantrum felt as though it was created intentionally by Hari, to achieve certain future results.

Salvor Hardin though ?? so joyless, so reactionary, so filled with this repellent unearned hubris and Messiah complex at this point in the series the character is completely unlikable to me.  Looking forward to her changing into the type of Salvor Hardin in the books.

96 (edited by paisley1 2021-11-12 22:15:18)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

109...set up episode. Ugh.

Spoiler

The plot against brother dawn and his captors so quickly thwarted by brother dusk, felt rushed, I would've liked to have seen that stretched out a little longer and unpacked a little better, but it was the best part of the episode.

Sal's father used Salvor Hardin's famous quote from the books "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." as a teaching lesson to a young Salvor Hardin, yet, we see Salvor Hardin in this episode being violent, so, congratulations on your incompetence.  The whole Terminus story is by far the weakest part of this show.  Love the Invictus though, can't wait to see what else that ship can do.  Hari shows up, surprise surprise, /S , again, deflationary approach to the story.

97

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

Spoiler
paisley1 wrote:

109...set up episode. Ugh.

The plot against brother dawn and his captors so quickly thwarted by brother dusk, felt rushed, I would've liked to have seen that stretched out a little longer and unpacked a little better

Yeah, that felt rushed. Them successfully being able to insert the doppelganger at the very top would have allowed for half a season of material! smile

98

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

lighton wrote:
Spoiler
paisley1 wrote:

109...set up episode. Ugh.

The plot against brother dawn and his captors so quickly thwarted by brother dusk, felt rushed, I would've liked to have seen that stretched out a little longer and unpacked a little better

Yeah, that felt rushed. Them successfully being able to insert the doppelganger at the very top would have allowed for half a season of material! smile

Absolutely, like I said before, there should be at least 20 episodes per season, with plenty of bottle episodes, to create some room to fully unpack and explore everything in the Foundation series.  It just doesn't do the story any service to rush.

99 (edited by merc 2021-11-15 12:09:32)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

paisley1 wrote:
lighton wrote:
Spoiler
paisley1 wrote:

109...set up episode. Ugh.

The plot against brother dawn and his captors so quickly thwarted by brother dusk, felt rushed, I would've liked to have seen that stretched out a little longer and unpacked a little better

Yeah, that felt rushed. Them successfully being able to insert the doppelganger at the very top would have allowed for half a season of material! smile

Absolutely, like I said before, there should be at least 20 episodes per season, with plenty of bottle episodes, to create some room to fully unpack and explore everything in the Foundation series.  It just doesn't do the story any service to rush.

I agree you need to booze up to get you through this dull programme

100 (edited by paisley1 2021-11-15 21:08:40)

Re: Foundation [Drama, Sci-Fi]

merc wrote:
paisley1 wrote:
lighton wrote:
Spoiler
paisley1 wrote:

109...set up episode. Ugh.

The plot against brother dawn and his captors so quickly thwarted by brother dusk, felt rushed, I would've liked to have seen that stretched out a little longer and unpacked a little better

Yeah, that felt rushed. Them successfully being able to insert the doppelganger at the very top would have allowed for half a season of material! smile

Absolutely, like I said before, there should be at least 20 episodes per season, with plenty of bottle episodes, to create some room to fully unpack and explore everything in the Foundation series.  It just doesn't do the story any service to rush.

I agree you need to booze up to get you through this dull programme

Lolz, for all of you that don't know what a bottle episode is, please read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_episode

My point was that, more expository episodes, like bottle episodes, would help flesh out, unpack, and bring to life, the more heady or intellectual aspects of Foundation, that so far, they've only glossed over.