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- lighton
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- From: Fillory (first floor)
- Registered: 2018-03-21
- Posts: 3,919
Topic: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
I just noticed that when I posted https://forum.next-episode.net/viewtopic.php?id=10633 2021-05-03, https://next-episode.net/maniac (a show that aired+ended 2018) was on 3656 watchlists. Today, it's on 3626 watchlists, 30 less than a month ago. Can it really be that 30 people either changed their mind and removed the show without watching it, or started to watch it and then decided to remove it because they didn't like it? While zero people (in net terms) added it to their watchlists?
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
About 17 added it in the last month, so that + 30 must've removed it. Seems plausible. Too bad we don't track removed shows (as to show a graph of shows popularity through time). I'll try to figure out something.
- lighton
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- From: Fillory (first floor)
- Registered: 2018-03-21
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
santah wrote:About 17 added it in the last month, so that + 30 must've removed it. Seems plausible. Too bad we don't track removed shows (as to show a graph of shows popularity through time). I'll try to figure out something.
Interesting. Regarding popularity: https://next-episode.net/loki is - if I recall correctly - the first show I ever saw with a 10k+ watchlist before 1x1 aired. https://next-episode.net/game-of-thrones must have had huge numbers too though.
- Wizard
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- From: England
- Registered: 2006-02-16
- Posts: 2,570
Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
I add stuff that I think I like (pre-aired). I do remove shows that I no longer watch or the pre-air trailer is awful. Santah, a popularity graph would be quite nice to see over time how a show changes. Not sure how much work that will be or how much extra data it will generate
DRM "manages access" in the same way that Prison "manages freedom". http://xkcd.com/488/
- mrverene
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
My policy is I leave them on list until I watch them, even once I finish them. Only reason I take them off is if I drop after a partial watch.
- TeaAndApathy
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- From: my Own Little World
- Registered: 2013-12-04
- Posts: 359
Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
1. Add current/future shows to watchlist, 2. tick "acquired" if I've d/l'ed it or if I've watched it on services like Netflix, 3. tick "watched" if I've watched it OR if I've been unable to d/l it or skipped it because Santah won't allow a tick box for such a thing, 4. mark shows I've discontinued watching or hated as "stop tracking" so when The Husband says, "Oo, let's try that" I can say, "We did and we dropped it". I barely use the movies portion, occasionally check the Requests for new shows listed, and I don't think I use any other services available on the site.
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
We don't track removed shows, but we track total "in watchlists" count, per week, for all shows, going back a month (in order to generate the What's Trending discovery chart). I just made it so it would keep not just one month worth of data, but every week from now on and I'll try and dig from my backups (month by month) this data so I can fill it going back a year. Will keep you guys posted in here.
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
Update: I managed to dig up some older info from the backups, but only up to about 3 months old. And I have a working demo of the chart now - here is how it looks: https://i.imgur.com/6wzhChv.png Also, it's turned on for all Next Episode mods on live show details pages so you can check it out. Let me know what you guys think!
- lighton
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- From: Fillory (first floor)
- Registered: 2018-03-21
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
santah wrote:Let me know what you guys think!
Wow, looks good! Two suggestions: - since you now use the "xx,xxx" format (appreciated!), you probably want to use that for Stats -> Watchlist too - IMO, the date range should be visible either on the x-axis or like "Popularity (date x - date y)"; mouse-over still is a mystery to many, and doesn't work on all devices
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
- lighton
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- From: Fillory (first floor)
- Registered: 2018-03-21
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
Better! Now, on the x-axis (see https://next-episode.net/loki for example), Feb is at the beginning of Feb, but May in the middle of May - and Mar and Apr somewhere between those extremes.
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
It's spacing them out semi automatically (semi, because I've set some manual rules for when there is less data). It bugs me they're not centered as well, but I couldn't figure out how to fix it, maybe tomorrow
- Wizard
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- From: England
- Registered: 2006-02-16
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
Looks awesome, one minor point, should the label be "Watchlist Popularity" since that i where the data is coming from?
DRM "manages access" in the same way that Prison "manages freedom". http://xkcd.com/488/
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
What other popularity can it be though? (and on mouse over it shows it's about watchlist count)
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
Here is a problem we have. There is a natural decay in show popularity (number of watchlists they're in) as users are being suspended for more than 2 years of inactivity (which effectively removes the count of what's in their watchlist from the total count). This is one example: https://next-episode.net/goliath but you can also see it on almost all shows, especially ones that are being popular for longer. To combat this, we can adjust the count with the suspended users watchlists, but this will somewhat skew our current popularity numbers. Especially on VERY popular shows. For example: https://next-episode.net/stranger-things (this has adjusted numbers in its popularity chart). You can clearly see this show is in about 40k active watchlists and about 40k more from users that are no longer active (those can become active at any time by simply logging back to the site). For most shows the difference is not so big, but I wonder what should we do here. Adjusted, the popularity chart makes more sense and gives better idea of the true change over time, I think. Thoughts?
- Wizard
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- From: England
- Registered: 2006-02-16
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
How many users do we have that are currently in that suspended state? Can we apply some logic to say that if a user only logs in once and only once (spam bots) we just delete them. If a user is active for quite a while, then goes dark we keep that account. Not sure how easy that could be.
DRM "manages access" in the same way that Prison "manages freedom". http://xkcd.com/488/
- lighton
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- From: Fillory (first floor)
- Registered: 2018-03-21
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
+1 for Adjusted Popularity Btw, do you send out login reminders after x months or a year without a login? (Not sure what the legal situation is regarding that.)
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
Wizard wrote:How many users do we have that are currently in that suspended state? Can we apply some logic to say that if a user only logs in once and only once (spam bots) we just delete them. If a user is active for quite a while, then goes dark we keep that account. Not sure how easy that could be.
Well spam bots don't really have anything in their watchlists so it isn't an issue ...
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
lighton wrote:Btw, do you send out login reminders after x months or a year without a login? (Not sure what the legal situation is regarding that.)
Used to (because we deleted users inactive for more than 2 years). We don't delete them now, just move them to a suspended state and don't send the notices anymore. Probably should though. lighton wrote:+1 for Adjusted Popularity
Yeah, switched the chart to the adjusted numbers for all shows and will switch the watchlists count to the adjusted number once I launch this for all (Premium) members. Let me know if you notice anything funny on the popularity charts now ...
- lighton
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- From: Fillory (first floor)
- Registered: 2018-03-21
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
santah wrote:lighton wrote:Btw, do you send out login reminders after x months or a year without a login? (Not sure what the legal situation is regarding that.)
Used to (because we deleted users inactive for more than 2 years). We don't delete them now, just move them to a suspended state and don't send the notices anymore. Probably should though.
Yes! Should be worth it, even if only a few percent come back as a result. Feel free to ask staff for feedback if you have different alternative texts in mind. santah wrote:Let me know if you notice anything funny on the popularity charts now ...
Will do! So far so good.
- Wizard
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- From: England
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
santah wrote:Let me know if you notice anything funny on the popularity charts now ...
Currently love them, great addition.
DRM "manages access" in the same way that Prison "manages freedom". http://xkcd.com/488/
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
It's ok, but I feel the feature can be better (that's why I still have not released it to other users). My problem with it is that, even when adjusted - we still have the problem with decay (just in the opposite direction) where older shows, simply get "more popular" with time. For example: https://next-episode.net/24 I'll play with rate of change and overall site rank over time to see if we'll get something that better represents the show popularity velocity (which I think is what we want to show here, right?)
- lighton
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- From: Fillory (first floor)
- Registered: 2018-03-21
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
santah wrote:My problem with it is that, even when adjusted - we still have the problem with decay (just in the opposite direction) where older shows, simply get "more popular" with time. For example: https://next-episode.net/24
I don't follow, please elaborate.
- santah
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Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
I've added a few other ways to plot the popularity (by Rank and Rate). Let me know what you guys think!
- lighton
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- From: Fillory (first floor)
- Registered: 2018-03-21
- Posts: 3,919
Re: How are folks using the watchlist?/ Popularity Charts
santah wrote:I've added a few other ways to plot the popularity (by Rank and Rate). Let me know what you guys think!
Very cool! Some notes: - in the mouse-over text for "Rate", you'll probably want to change "By" into "by" - in the Rank graph, the topmost value should never be 0 but 1 (example: https://next-episode.net/the-handmaids-tale) - the Watchlists graph should be limited to numbers that could become real; thinking big is great, but 100 quadrillion watchlists on https://next-episode.net/the-mysterious … ct-society might be a bit too much
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