Topic: The importance of shows having a proper ending

There have been several users mentioning this, for example Lollie at https://forum.next-episode.net/viewtopi … 39#p166839 :

Lollie wrote:

Typical. Beginning to think there's no point starting to watch anything till it has been around for three proven years or more.

I understand that it can be frustrating when a show doesn't get a proper ending, but with the way the industry works it's probably not a realistic thing to expect? You maybe can but probably don't want every season to have a 'show finale' feeling, and shows don't get renewed for all kinds of reasons.

I loved the very consequential ending of https://next-episode.net/true-blood for example, but would never consider the idea of not watching something great like https://next-episode.net/messiah just because a second season would totally make sense.

So, in my experience, the joy of watching a quality show always wins over the frustration of an improper ending.

Thoughts? smile

2 (edited by HomerS 2020-11-29 02:13:39)

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

I agree, it would not stop me and i rather watch a quality show with only 1 or 2 seasons that was ended to early than never having watched it in the first place, like Firefly, Messiah and so on.

But i sometimes think twice before i start a new FOX series because their new shows often have a tough time to get renewed in the first place (but i usually still watch them, if i liked the pilot).

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=Watchlist&kk=276008292d78a1f619f8bbc10840767b

3 (edited by Lollie 2020-11-29 01:08:28)

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

I would rather not see the show at all than watch it for a season then have some idiot cancel it, and ruin the story flow leaving it hanging.

It leaves me with a bunch of questions and a very bitter taste in my mouth.

https://i.postimg.cc/FzfWmwnQ/sigTV.png

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

Lollie wrote:

I would rather not see the show at all than watch it for a season then have some idiot cancel it, and ruin the story flow leaving it hanging.

It leaves me with a bunch of questions and a very bitter taste in my mouth.

When you invest in something for so long, it's nice to get some kind of closure.

But TV is a business, and if the show isn't making enough money, surely it makes sense not to keep on with it?  Don't get me wrong, I've been left wanting more from many shows, but I totally understand why shows are cancelled.

If you ran a business that wasn't making enough money and only had a small customer base, wouldn't it make more sense for you to close that one and maybe start another one?

2020.  Meh.

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

graybags wrote:
Lollie wrote:

I would rather not see the show at all than watch it for a season then have some idiot cancel it, and ruin the story flow leaving it hanging.

It leaves me with a bunch of questions and a very bitter taste in my mouth.

When you invest in something for so long, it's nice to get some kind of closure.

But TV is a business, and if the show isn't making enough money, surely it makes sense not to keep on with it?  Don't get me wrong, I've been left wanting more from many shows, but I totally understand why shows are cancelled.

If you ran a business that wasn't making enough money and only had a small customer base, wouldn't it make more sense for you to close that one and maybe start another one?

I think the issue is they are trying to make money off something that doesn't make money from quality shows. Their market seems to be in mass reactions of the average portion of the internet, and not in quality.

So we end up with decent shows getting cancelled while their dumber shows go on and on. And with them not caring to give the decent shows time to gather that audience.

https://i.postimg.cc/FzfWmwnQ/sigTV.png

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

Lollie wrote:

So we end up with decent shows getting cancelled while their dumber shows go on and on. And with them not caring to give the decent shows time to gather that audience.

I guess that's the blessing/curse of increased TV competition: you get a lot more shows to choose from, but the business execs are more brutal when it comes to ending shows that don't bring the desired numbers.

Personally, I love the net benefit! smile

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

From a cynical point of view, if the show is done it doesn't matter if you liked it or not, you already watched it. And if there is no more to come, there is no longer any incentive to keep the viewer satisfied.
If you allow yourself to believe this is about more than money, you will always be disappointed...
I am quite surprised at how many good shows there ARE nowadays, even in such an unstable business with such a fickle audience, with zero attention span. Although I still believe getting away from the broadcast giants and their inane programs is crucial. (How are they still doing sitcoms with laugh tracks, for instance?)
Plus there is always the temptation of making cheap but profitable reality tv instead...

8 (edited by HomerS 2020-11-30 00:14:59)

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

selecta wrote:

And if there is no more to come, there is no longer any incentive to keep the viewer satisfied.

If the viewer was satisfied with a show he might also buy it in the future or atleast recommend it to others and they might watch/buy it aswell. So atleast in theory they should have an incentive to keep the viewers satisfied overall.

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=Watchlist&kk=276008292d78a1f619f8bbc10840767b

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

selecta wrote:

Although I still believe getting away from the broadcast giants and their inane programs is crucial. (How are they still doing sitcoms with laugh tracks, for instance?)
Plus there is always the temptation of making cheap but profitable reality tv instead...

I totally agree, regular TV is to be avoided at all costs. smile Lots of crap is airing, and ads have become so intense, especially in the US, that I don't know how people can watch those daily... Oh, wait: "The world is in the midst of a crisis of over-medication, with the US alone buying up 49,000 tonnes of paracetamol every year – equivalent to about 298 paracetamol tablets per person" (BBC)

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

For the laugh tracks discussion, please see https://forum.next-episode.net/viewtopic.php?id=10466

I couldn't split the first post of that thread, so here's the relevant part for this discussion:

some_one wrote:
selecta wrote:

Plus there is always the temptation of making cheap but profitable reality tv instead...

That's kind of an umbrella term for a lot of different kinds of shows. Still, most of them are probably not made to be watched on purpose, but to be put on in the background to generate some noise. This has less in common with watching television shows than it has with streaming music at random.

Not my style personally there, but enough people seem to be looking for just that, so clearly it's still a service provided.


If you want to watch shows you can actually get into, that's a totally different market; it is the latter of these two markets that is being discussed here. The two seem to be drifting apart these days. Maybe this will come with differences in how they are handled eventually.

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

lighton wrote:
some_one wrote:
selecta wrote:

Plus there is always the temptation of making cheap but profitable reality tv instead...

That's kind of an umbrella term for a lot of different kinds of shows. Still, most of them are probably not made to be watched on purpose, but to be put on in the background to generate some noise.

Yeah, what's up with that? I had a friend who ALWAYS had the TV running... first thing to turn on in the morning, last to turn off at night.

12 (edited by Lollie 2020-12-01 16:55:24)

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

lighton wrote:
lighton wrote:
some_one wrote:
selecta wrote:

Plus there is always the temptation of making cheap but profitable reality tv instead...

That's kind of an umbrella term for a lot of different kinds of shows. Still, most of them are probably not made to be watched on purpose, but to be put on in the background to generate some noise.

Yeah, what's up with that? I had a friend who ALWAYS had the TV running... first thing to turn on in the morning, last to turn off at night.

I almost always keep noise on in my apartment, it's right in the city and needs a sound wall to block out the outside noises.

Though I am picky about what I play (whether music or tv shows). But yes some tv shows are almost purely for noise and I don't gaf about paying too much attention to them. Those tv shows are the -just okay- shows I keep on my watchlist.

https://i.postimg.cc/FzfWmwnQ/sigTV.png

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

lighton wrote:

Yeah, what's up with that? I had a friend who ALWAYS had the TV running... first thing to turn on in the morning, last to turn off at night.

There can be a number of reasons. Some people just can't stand silence, some (like Lollie, apparently) want to drown something out. I like to have something that catches my attention once it wanders, so I do it too sometimes, although mostly with reruns of old shows I liked. There is a surprising amount of use cases a television is actually good for.

Compare that with books. It's always nice to have a good novel with an interesting story, but not all written words are novels and newspapers.


Still, my earlier point stands. The "novel" type television shows are a market that is becoming more and more distinct from the rest, and maybe it will eventually work with standards that are more convenient for us viewers.

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

Reality shows don't HAVE to be bad. Mythbusters was a reality show, for example. But that show was (mostly) free of the many annoying tropes that reality shows seem to all be based around. They are always constructed the same way, with the "confessionals", the constant "in-show spoilers" (my term - you know, "coming up after the break", and then they show a spoiler!), and all the rest. They are exhausting, even when the subject matter is actually interesting! I don't get it. There must be more ways of doing it!

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

some_one wrote:

Some people just can't stand silence, some (like Lollie, apparently) want to drown something out. I like to have something that catches my attention once it wanders, so I do it too sometimes, although mostly with reruns of old shows I liked. There is a surprising amount of use cases a television is actually good for.

I've frequently used music to catch (part of) my attention in the past while working on something, but only music I already knew and only music that would not distract me. TV - for me - is the opposite, a total distraction and extreme attention puller. big_smile

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

I dumped my TV about 10 years ago, but when I had a set, it was always on. Mostly on mute, but always on. "Extreme attention puller" is a good way to put it, and the main reason I got rid of it! Since then I only watch what I want to watch, through Netflix and other online sources. No more commercials! Ever! big_smile

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

selecta wrote:

I dumped my TV about 10 years ago, but when I had a set, it was always on. Mostly on mute, but always on. "Extreme attention puller" is a good way to put it, and the main reason I got rid of it! Since then I only watch what I want to watch, through Netflix and other online sources. No more commercials! Ever! big_smile

YES! smile

https://media0.giphy.com/media/ckHNUGbtQERslTYJD4/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e476s457a2j3zzhvdfa8c10tjyhcur45vq69a897a1k&rid=giphy.gif

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

While Hollywood is a business, it's a pretty complicated one, that has gotten a lot more complicated in the last few decades.

A good example are the two science fiction shows, Dark Matter and Killjoys. Both were pretty good, but then the one (that I think was a bit better, DM), was canceled, while K was renewed. The reason was that they had different ownership rights. You have the production company, the distribution company, the network etc. and each can have a different contract for different parts of the show, yielding different profits, and therefore different renewal equations.

Then there's the cast and their contracts. Do they want to commit to doing a movie that ties things up, but can't be shot for another year or three, thus blocking potential future "normal" employment.

As to why any of the networks / production companies / etc. should care about leaving their viewers happy, there's DVD sales, and syndication sales, and more an more shows are being re-issued on paid cable, even for the minor shows. I suspect such is why, after a LONG hiatus, Deadwood was revisited as a ending the story movie.

--
The NSA - proof that Your Government really DOES listen to you!

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

Well, of course, I simplified for the sake of the argument, which was a devil's advocate-type statement anyway. It is certainly a complicated market. And I am 100% with you about the DM/KJ-situation, the wrong show was canceled. Having said that, I admit I know nothing about which of them was more popular, or more profitable.

Re: The importance of shows having a proper ending

It's simple. Shows should be insured from sudden cancellation by having special fund for additional final episode or TV-movie. It would be good for everyone including karma of greedy companies. Sometimes audience willing to add their money for additional production. If not additional episode then probably something like comic-book or at least readable scenario. All needed from companies is give some money and right to authors to do that. But of course they are too greedy for that.