1 (edited by lighton 2020-09-29 10:43:38)

Topic: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

https://next-episode.net/lovecraft-country
Watchlists: 2616

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Lovecraft Country follows Atticus Black as he joins up with his friend Letitia and his Uncle George to embark on a road trip across 1950s Jim Crow America in search of his missing father. This begins a struggle to survive and overcome both the racist terrors of white America and the terrifying monsters that could be ripped from a Lovecraft paperback.

After watching an episode, you may want to check out The Guardian's Lovecraft Country: episode by episode recaps that offer additional insights and context.

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

Wow, what a strange and cool show. 1x1 took forever at a slow pace, and then... BOOM! big_smile cool

Initial rating: 8/10

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

Yeah I like it! Was all old timey racist stuff then OH YEAH! Things got weird fast.

https://i.postimg.cc/FzfWmwnQ/sigTV.png

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

Running from white folk was way scarier than the monsters....

5 (edited by Lollie 2020-08-18 11:35:21)

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

MeDumbDuck wrote:

Running from white folk was way scarier than the monsters....

But those monsters even scurred the white folk.

I think it's more weird than scary anyway.

https://i.postimg.cc/FzfWmwnQ/sigTV.png

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

MeDumbDuck wrote:

Running from white folk was way scarier than the monsters....

This is actually a very interesting approach to this. For those not aware, H. P Lovecraft is well known to have been very, very racist.

In fact, many suggest that part of the reason why he was able to create an atmosphere of existential horror the way he could was due to being terrified of anything foreign to him in the first place. Hell, he wrote a horror story about refrigeration.


In retrospect, a lot of his work is kind of tainted by this. By wrapping his work into a story where racism itself is one of the biggest horrors, I think they might actually be able to bring this into our time without having to cover up its actual origin.

So far, this show seems nice. Not very Lovecraft yet, even despite having what I assume has to be shoggoths(?), but a decent setup. Will be watching.

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

I was very bored the first 40 mins but then it got interesting. I hope they change the pacing a bit the next episodes but could be fun.

https://next-episode.net/sig/sig.php?alias=Watchlist&kk=276008292d78a1f619f8bbc10840767b

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

some_one wrote:
MeDumbDuck wrote:

Running from white folk was way scarier than the monsters....

This is actually a very interesting approach to this. For those not aware, H. P Lovecraft is well known to have been very, very racist.


So, what should we do now? Boycott? Is there a monument we could tear down? big_smile

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

g371 wrote:

So, what should we do now? Boycott? Is there a monument we could tear down? big_smile

Nah, that's not how this is normally supposed to work.

I used the word "taint" for a reason; the core of what made it appealing is still there, but the way we approach it should ideally have changed a bit, at least if we assume that not only the author was racist but the work itself a metaphor for experiencing (your own) xenophobia.

The show's concept seems geared towards doing just that by reframing it and I think that at least makes it interesting.



HomerS wrote:

I was very bored the first 40 mins but then it got interesting. I hope they change the pacing a bit the next episodes but could be fun.

I think the first car chase, at the very least, was done and placed well.

This show does take place in the 1950s in the middle of nowhere so I can appreciate it for demonstrating the blandness of the setting.

But yeah, hopefully it does manage to pay off for it later.

10 (edited by proteinnerd 2020-08-20 01:09:16)

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

I really enjoyed ep 1.

I was worried the whole "white men bad" would be handled poorly and just be current day SJW Woke virtue signalling but it really worked for me and really immersed me into how terrible 1950's segregation was....its really hard to believe that was the accepted attitude only 70 years ago!! WTF is it with sundown towns? I've never heard of them before but a quick wiki search shows they were quite prevalent a the time!!!

I've heard episode 2 is a little disappointing but it picks up again from there so I've tempered my expectations for next week but I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

some_one wrote:

I think the first car chase, at the very least, was done and placed well.

Yep that is when it got interesting and i woke up wink

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Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

Lollie wrote:

I think it's more weird than scary anyway.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Good, but not scary.

@some_one: thanks for the additional info!

proteinnerd wrote:

really immersed me into how terrible 1950's segregation was....its really hard to believe that was the accepted attitude only 70 years ago!! WTF is it with sundown towns? I've never heard of them before but a quick wiki search shows they were quite prevalent a the time!!!

Yeah, WTF indeed! I googled a bit: The Negro Motorist Green Book was published from 1936 till 1966! yikes yikes

13 (edited by g371 2020-08-22 19:21:32)

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

lighton wrote:

Yeah, WTF indeed! I googled a bit: The Negro Motorist Green Book was published from 1936 till 1966! yikes yikes

It's pretty fucked up, but not let's pay each 1 million USD compensation fucked up, in the same period a lot of people had it way worse, for example jews and almost every Eastern European smile Hey, they even had cars and a need for a motorist guide! big_smile Or even the right to own a private property big_smile But who do we hear crying non stop?

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

g371 wrote:
lighton wrote:

Yeah, WTF indeed! I googled a bit: The Negro Motorist Green Book was published from 1936 till 1966! yikes yikes

It's pretty fucked up, but not let's pay each 1 million USD compensation fucked up, in the same period a lot of people had it way worse, for example jews and almost every Eastern European smile Hey, they even had cars and a need for a motorist guide! big_smile Or even the right to own a private property big_smile But who do we hear crying non stop?

That is... somehow the strangest, most weirdly specific case of whataboutism I have heard so far. Does the one thing that sucks somehow invalidate every other thing that sucks?

Is history something that should just be swept under the rug if it's not convenient?

I, too, did not know sundown towns were a thing. Similarly, I had never heard about the Tulsa massacre before it was very casually built into Watchmen last year, same as many people who even live there, apparently.

History is not only the good parts. Especially the bad parts are very important to remember, and barely anyone seems to do that in the US. As a German, I find that honestly quite baffling.


If a show takes place in this setting, then it makes sense to also include the nasty parts. If the setting is is the US and during pretty much any time period during the last few hundred years... who exactly else do you expect to be the victim of the nasty parts?

This is a horror-themed show. I appreciate that they do try to show us not only the horror that is supernatural, but even the everyday kind that was already there. Bonus points if it is something I haven't heard of before, which sundown towns qualify for.

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

g371 wrote:
lighton wrote:

Yeah, WTF indeed! I googled a bit: The Negro Motorist Green Book was published from 1936 till 1966! yikes yikes

It's pretty fucked up, but not let's pay each 1 million USD compensation fucked up, in the same period a lot of people had it way worse, for example jews and almost every Eastern European smile Hey, they even had cars and a need for a motorist guide! big_smile Or even the right to own a private property big_smile But who do we hear crying non stop?

In addition to what some_one said: I find it strange that you think that living in a communist country (where the vast majority agreed with how things were) is worse than being chased, shot at and maybe even lynched, not because of something you did but because of the color of your skin. yikes

16 (edited by g371 2020-08-23 18:26:38)

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

some_one wrote:
g371 wrote:
lighton wrote:

Yeah, WTF indeed! I googled a bit: The Negro Motorist Green Book was published from 1936 till 1966! yikes yikes

It's pretty fucked up, but not let's pay each 1 million USD compensation fucked up, in the same period a lot of people had it way worse, for example jews and almost every Eastern European smile Hey, they even had cars and a need for a motorist guide! big_smile Or even the right to own a private property big_smile But who do we hear crying non stop?

That is... somehow the strangest, most weirdly specific case of whataboutism I have heard so far. Does the one thing that sucks somehow invalidate every other thing that sucks?

I'm not saying that something should be swept somewhere, but for sure I'm saying that highlighting a single issue in history is annoying - and funny as well: https://next-episode.net/blackaf

But "whataboutism" is the term that is used when a simple comparison threatens an argument big_smile Very popular with small children when they claim that something "is not fair" in some game, meaning that is should be played just by the ruleset that almost guarantees a win for them big_smile Same here, don't look at the whole picture, look just at poor oppressed black people smile

So, I stand by my point, they were fucked, but these were fucked times, time to move on, everybody else already did smile

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

g371 wrote:

But "whataboutism" is the term that is used when a simple comparison threatens an argument big_smile Very popular with small children when they claim that something "is not fair" in some game, meaning that is should be played just by the ruleset that almost guarantees a win for them big_smile Same here, don't look at the whole picture, look just at poor oppressed black people smile

Err, nope... when you do a show about a certain time in the USA where black people play an important role, you focus on those people in their environment. It would not make sense to also point out the struggles of Native Americans of the Amazon rain forest or even the Mau Mau Uprising in Africa, even if those happen at the same time.

g371 wrote:

So, I stand by my point, they were fucked, but these were fucked times, time to move on, everybody else already did smile

That's not the point.

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

g371 wrote:

But "whataboutism" is the term that is used when a simple comparison threatens an argument big_smile Very popular with small children when they claim that something "is not fair" in some game, meaning that is should be played just by the ruleset that almost guarantees a win for them

...just where did you get that from? That is not what whataboutism is about. If you want to raise a point that actually invalidates the point being made - go for it.

But if the only point somebody is making is "well there are other things in the world that also suck, and they suck more", then well, yes? Does that mean that it's okay for the thing we were just talking about to suck? No, it does not. That person is merely trying to distract from it instead of making a point. That is what the term "whataboutism" refers to. The pigeon strategy.


g371 wrote:

don't look at the whole picture, look just at poor oppressed black people smile

I mean, yeah, but see my earlier point: this is the USA in the 50s, who else do think would be a good example for being oppressed there?

I am open for examples. There are some, but I can honestly not think of any that are better than "black people".


g371 wrote:

but these were fucked times, time to move on, everybody else already did smile

Yeah but that's the problem - who exactly did? I'd like  to point out that this was less than 70 years ago. A lot of the people who went through this shit are still alive today.


Again, German here. Having stuff like this show up in out pop culture is not about pity. It's not about making amends for history.

It is important because it reminds people that "hey, this shit happened, can you please make sure it doesn't happen again?"

Because again, public education seems to be doing a piss-poor job at even acknowledging it in many places.



The setting here is 50s USA. The only thing I have seen that is out of place so far are lovecraftian monsters. I assume we will get quite a few more of those.

19 (edited by g371 2020-08-24 06:35:38)

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

some_one wrote:

Yeah but that's the problem - who exactly did? I'd like  to point out that this was less than 70 years ago. A lot of the people who went through this shit are still alive today.

Literally everybody. You know who also is still alive? My father, who witnessed Russian shit, how his father was deported to Siberia twice in total for 25 years, how he could not even go to the sea 100 metres from his home because there were fucks with AK's patrolling sea border, because people were trying to flee to Sweden, my mother who witnessed how family business is confiscated and her father jailed for 5 years for nothing. And a shitload of other people. Literally today to be in Belarus is 1000 times more fucked than to be a black man in worlds number 1 economy, where all you need to do, is not to play a victim and try to do something instead of embracing dumb "culture" and tearing down monuments smile Minsk today is sundown city, wrong time, wrong place and you are tortured for a couple days by police big_smile

These TV series, imo, for sure will be weaponized by BLM bullshit, fits agenda perfectly, white cops chasing black guys big_smile Tho series itself looks promising. But it's hard for me to be empathetic to todays "woke" ideas, even if I don't justify past events in any way. In my book, they have problems, but mostly they create them themselves and keep blaming the past for their own doing. For example wtf is that "you are not black enough"? big_smile Like if you do something with your life, are not racist yourself, then you are a sellout and how else they call them. That blackAF basically sums up all nonsense very nice. My pasta is cold? Racism. Toilet don't flush? White oppression big_smile

You are from Germany? Want a quick history lesson how deeply and how many times we have been fucked by Germany past 1000 years? big_smile When was the last time you heard us complaining about that? In our culture Germans just some 100+ years ago basically are equal to USA's slave owners, but somehow we dont make a connection to modern day Germany, because these were different times and different people. But USA's blacks still keep blaming todays whites for past with what they have nothing to do with big_smile We got rid of Russians just in 90ies, but today we already are ahead of them in every metric. What's the blacks excuse? Systematic racism? smile The same tens of thousands of whites who cheer in arenas for dominantly black NBA and NFL players? smile

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

I'm just here for the Lovecraft monsters.

https://i.postimg.cc/FzfWmwnQ/sigTV.png

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

Hey I guess the show is doing one of the things its supposed to.  It gets people talking about it.  No matter what your views are.

I'm with Member, more monsters of the Lovecraft kind please smile

22 (edited by some_one 2020-08-24 19:32:55)

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

g371 wrote:

Literally everybody.

The fact that we are having this conversation literally proves you wrong. The fact that many people are having it even more so.

g371 wrote:

You know who also is still alive? My father, who witnessed Russian shit, how his father was deported to Siberia twice in total for 25 years, how he could not even go to the sea 100 metres from his home because there were fucks with AK's patrolling sea border, because people were trying to flee to Sweden, my mother who witnessed how family business is confiscated and her father jailed for 5 years for nothing. And a shitload of other people. Literally today to be in Belarus is 1000 times more fucked than to be a black man in worlds number 1 economy, where all you need to do, is not to play a victim and try to do something instead of embracing dumb "culture" and tearing down monuments smile Minsk today is sundown city, wrong time, wrong place and you are tortured for a couple days by police big_smile

A lot of the things that happened in the Soviet Union were arguably worse; they were, however, different in that a vast majority of them were perpetrated by government officials, not regular citizens. That does not make anything better (maybe even worse) but it does make a direct comparsion difficult.

The things that are currently happening in Belarus are indeed quite fucked up, I agree, but again politically motivated, not people killing other people during peaceful times just because of the way they look. The bad things work differently if they can happen to anyone. Again, maybe worse, but easier to make go away.


g371 wrote:

These TV series, imo, for sure will be weaponized by BLM bullshit, fits agenda perfectly, white cops chasing black guys big_smile Tho series itself looks promising. But it's hard for me to be empathetic to todays "woke" ideas, even if I don't justify past events in any way. In my book, they have problems, but mostly they create them themselves and keep blaming the past for their own doing. For example wtf is that "you are not black enough"? big_smile Like if you do something with your life, are not racist yourself, then you are a sellout and how else they call them. That blackAF basically sums up all nonsense very nice. My pasta is cold? Racism. Toilet don't flush? White oppression big_smile

I don't think it helps to conflate those people saying "please don't kill us without a good reason" with those who just want to be loud about something. There are assholes everywhere, in any movement. It's never a good idea to just assume that the whole movement is about them.

The US do have structures in place where people who do not qualify as "white" simply have a harder time, on average, trying to reach the same goals than those who do, and there is no reason for that. It all simply grew that way. Many people want to change that.


g371 wrote:

You are from Germany? Want a quick history lesson how deeply and how many times we have been fucked by Germany past 1000 years? big_smile When was the last time you heard us complaining about that? In our culture Germans just some 100+ years ago basically are equal to USA's slave owners, but somehow we dont make a connection to modern day Germany, because these were different times and different people.

But this is exactly what I am saying. Our history here involves a lot of really, really bad stuff, even if you just look at the last century. Our ancestors were not the victims there. They were the ones doing it. It is important to remember that, so we can make sure it does not happen again in the future. If you "move on" from history, a few generations later a lot of things will simply happen again, and I really hope that neither of us actually wants that.

I would like to see more of the bad things you are describing, but unfortunately, most of these shows are from the US and center on the US. One notable exception might be Chernobyl.


g371 wrote:

We got rid of Russians just in 90ies, but today we already are ahead of them in every metric. What's the blacks excuse? Systematic racism? smile

Well that's just a weird thing to say. You had your own country to begin with, it was merely occupied for a while. It's a different thing to make progress as a nation instead of as a minority of the people who live in a country whose only defining feature is "looks slightly different" and who cannot change anything about that.


Showing racism in media is not only about giving some people a reason to cheer or whatever. It's also there to show people who do not experience it like that why it sucks. It does that well.


neophyl wrote:

Hey I guess the show is doing one of the things its supposed to.  It gets people talking about it.  No matter what your views are.

I'm with Member, more monsters of the Lovecraft kind please smile

Agreed. I'ma watch ep2 now.

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

neophyl wrote:

Hey I guess the show is doing one of the things its supposed to.  It gets people talking about it.  No matter what your views are.

I'm with Member, more monsters of the Lovecraft kind please smile

No, YOUR name is Member wink

https://i.postimg.cc/FzfWmwnQ/sigTV.png

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

LOL

Good stuff

Re: Lovecraft Country [Drama, Fantasy, Horror]

So, that was 1x3! yikes

Again, I didn't find it scary, but DAMN! The quality of the last 15 minutes... wow. yikes

P.S.: Nice elevator! cool